I just returned from a delivery, my first offshore experience from Miami to Cozmel and feel fortunate for the opportunity, but the Captain with decades of experience, relyed solely on SSB reports. I found them to be generally wrong in wind direction and force. In knowing the captain had much more experience and knowledge I kept my mouth shut but can't understand why he kept following the generally wrong advise. There must be a better way, so what do you use for weather infomation at sea?
Weather
- Thread starter Doug Burton
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NOAA
Its mind boggling how NOAA and NWS can be so consistantly wrong. I work offshore and i cant think of a single oil company or helicopter company that does not use a paid subscription weather service. When Im sailing offshore, I use my HAM SSB to get onto a mariners network on 14.300MHz. If you ask for a weather update, some of their volunteer radio operators have access to better forecasts. The only other choice is to get the waether FAX from your SSB, whether it be a HAM Radio or Marine SSB and learn how to interpret the data. Almost everyone gets their info from the same source..NOAA and NWS. Weather forecasting is an art more than a science. Your guess may be better than theirs. Sorry. if thats not what you wanted to hear. Tony B
Its mind boggling how NOAA and NWS can be so consistantly wrong. I work offshore and i cant think of a single oil company or helicopter company that does not use a paid subscription weather service. When Im sailing offshore, I use my HAM SSB to get onto a mariners network on 14.300MHz. If you ask for a weather update, some of their volunteer radio operators have access to better forecasts. The only other choice is to get the waether FAX from your SSB, whether it be a HAM Radio or Marine SSB and learn how to interpret the data. Almost everyone gets their info from the same source..NOAA and NWS. Weather forecasting is an art more than a science. Your guess may be better than theirs. Sorry. if thats not what you wanted to hear. Tony B
NW Caribean Net
This radio net is very helpful. We've used in Belize and Mexico. It's great for getting forecasts and oberserved conditions from cruisers around the area.
This radio net is very helpful. We've used in Belize and Mexico. It's great for getting forecasts and oberserved conditions from cruisers around the area.
Thanks
I was just curious what was supposed to happen. I'm a long way from reading those charts myself. Some pretty complicated looking stuff. What he was doing was listening to some guy that was helping cruisers every morning but would come up saying "Oh no, light winds from the south" and reality would be 15-20 knots from the west. Like barometer said, you get what you pay for. I guess as long as you don't get suprised by a storm once you're a day out it doesn't much matter cause you're going anyway. I'm copying that 14.300 spot. Thanks
I was just curious what was supposed to happen. I'm a long way from reading those charts myself. Some pretty complicated looking stuff. What he was doing was listening to some guy that was helping cruisers every morning but would come up saying "Oh no, light winds from the south" and reality would be 15-20 knots from the west. Like barometer said, you get what you pay for. I guess as long as you don't get suprised by a storm once you're a day out it doesn't much matter cause you're going anyway. I'm copying that 14.300 spot. Thanks
Doug, there is more to 14.300
I was to lazy to type so I cut and pasted this from a previous post i made: HAM RADIO Why dont ALL cruisers have a HAM radio aboard? The license today, is all but guven away, but thats another story. Anyway, it is nice to be able to track sailors during their journey. And also you can get weather FAX and other weather reports on SSB. Just download a program for a $35 one time fee, plug your headphone jack on the back of your HAM (SSB) radio to the mic input on your laptop and voila!! Back to my original point....amongst other benefits, there is a maritime mobile network on 14.300MHz that is comprised of volunteers. You can fill out a simple 'trip plan' over the radio, telephone, FAX or e-mail. They in turn post for you on shiptrac.org this allows friends and family to track you on your journey. All you have to do is radio in whenever and however many times a day you want and give them infor as to course, speed, intended destination, approx. arrival time etc. They also post notes for you such as "hit bad weather , running a day late, all is OK. see you soon". That kinda stuff. They will make phone calls for you and relay messages for you.Its really a comfort for you friends and family to "hear" from you every day on the internet. Tony B KC5SDI
I was to lazy to type so I cut and pasted this from a previous post i made: HAM RADIO Why dont ALL cruisers have a HAM radio aboard? The license today, is all but guven away, but thats another story. Anyway, it is nice to be able to track sailors during their journey. And also you can get weather FAX and other weather reports on SSB. Just download a program for a $35 one time fee, plug your headphone jack on the back of your HAM (SSB) radio to the mic input on your laptop and voila!! Back to my original point....amongst other benefits, there is a maritime mobile network on 14.300MHz that is comprised of volunteers. You can fill out a simple 'trip plan' over the radio, telephone, FAX or e-mail. They in turn post for you on shiptrac.org this allows friends and family to track you on your journey. All you have to do is radio in whenever and however many times a day you want and give them infor as to course, speed, intended destination, approx. arrival time etc. They also post notes for you such as "hit bad weather , running a day late, all is OK. see you soon". That kinda stuff. They will make phone calls for you and relay messages for you.Its really a comfort for you friends and family to "hear" from you every day on the internet. Tony B KC5SDI
I think you said it best; if you are out there
and your destination is fixed what difference does it really makes where the winds are blowing from. The captain surely knows the wind predictions are very fickle and is probably mainly listening for changes in the big picture. You should have asked him. If the boat is not equiped with satellite communications, SSB is about the only choice to get weather info offshore. You can get get a radio fax from NOOA like "barometer from Annapolis" displays and all you need is a SSB receiver, a laptop computer and some fax software to interpret the bips and baps being broadcasted. Weather forecasting is not an exact science and no weather forecaster bats a 100%. They all get their information from NOOA as no private enterprise puts forth the resources in manpower and equipment to be able to gather the data. Remember that nincompup senator from Pennsilvania, Mr. Sartorium, who wanted to pass legislation to stop NOOA from broadcasting weather predictions so that private sector forecaster would be the only ones to offer the service. We all know this would have gone from a free service to a business monopoly where everyone would have to pay one way or another to get weather reports. This would have meant a great windfall for the private providers and their benefactors. Some much for this senator trying to protect the interest and welfare of the federal citzens. (Sorry for the rant but I'm still upset and deeply dissapointed with this legilator) NOOA predictions are as good as any and when the chips are down with Hurricanes and foul weather systems they seem to dig down and provide pretty good life saving info. Your tax dollars makes this possible so protect the agency against those modern day pirates.
and your destination is fixed what difference does it really makes where the winds are blowing from. The captain surely knows the wind predictions are very fickle and is probably mainly listening for changes in the big picture. You should have asked him. If the boat is not equiped with satellite communications, SSB is about the only choice to get weather info offshore. You can get get a radio fax from NOOA like "barometer from Annapolis" displays and all you need is a SSB receiver, a laptop computer and some fax software to interpret the bips and baps being broadcasted. Weather forecasting is not an exact science and no weather forecaster bats a 100%. They all get their information from NOOA as no private enterprise puts forth the resources in manpower and equipment to be able to gather the data. Remember that nincompup senator from Pennsilvania, Mr. Sartorium, who wanted to pass legislation to stop NOOA from broadcasting weather predictions so that private sector forecaster would be the only ones to offer the service. We all know this would have gone from a free service to a business monopoly where everyone would have to pay one way or another to get weather reports. This would have meant a great windfall for the private providers and their benefactors. Some much for this senator trying to protect the interest and welfare of the federal citzens. (Sorry for the rant but I'm still upset and deeply dissapointed with this legilator) NOOA predictions are as good as any and when the chips are down with Hurricanes and foul weather systems they seem to dig down and provide pretty good life saving info. Your tax dollars makes this possible so protect the agency against those modern day pirates.
many sources
there are many sources for weather and oceanographic information. NOAA is one. Most technologically adept nations or groups of nations have seriously invested in sophisticated numerical models of our atmosphere. Such nations with interest in maritime affairs are concerned with weather over the global ocean. As i've pointed out before, there's a serious lack of surface data on the sea. Without such data, numerical models are challenged. However, the advent of multichannel sensors on satellites mitigates the lack of surface data. if you are "out there", especially under sail, you are concerned about the next 20 minutes, 24 hours, day, week...especially when your speed of advance is under 15 knots. an interesting fact about weather forecasts is many of them are broadcast and inherently not tailored to an individual boat, wherever it may be. one boat can be experiencing 50 knot gusts and another 10 miles away doesn't see it. forecast validation is the bread and butter of a forecaster; it measures their competence. cheers from cold annapolis
there are many sources for weather and oceanographic information. NOAA is one. Most technologically adept nations or groups of nations have seriously invested in sophisticated numerical models of our atmosphere. Such nations with interest in maritime affairs are concerned with weather over the global ocean. As i've pointed out before, there's a serious lack of surface data on the sea. Without such data, numerical models are challenged. However, the advent of multichannel sensors on satellites mitigates the lack of surface data. if you are "out there", especially under sail, you are concerned about the next 20 minutes, 24 hours, day, week...especially when your speed of advance is under 15 knots. an interesting fact about weather forecasts is many of them are broadcast and inherently not tailored to an individual boat, wherever it may be. one boat can be experiencing 50 knot gusts and another 10 miles away doesn't see it. forecast validation is the bread and butter of a forecaster; it measures their competence. cheers from cold annapolis
I keep being amazed by all the
info on the NOAA site. Those mid ocean sea state charts are pretty sobering to contemplate before heading out there. 30' seas in the mid atlantic and nearly 40' seas off Alaska are quite impressive sounding now matter how big your cruising boat is. Rough seas like this are certainly of interest to the big guys (maritime and naval vessels). I have searched NOAA a bit and I can find no similar detail for the "roaring 40's" or the Indian Ocean. My question is, if you were say Kan Barnes trying to round the tip of S. America where could you get equivalent information and detail? Is this another case where HAM or SSB would help fill the gap (unless the gap is between my ears)?
info on the NOAA site. Those mid ocean sea state charts are pretty sobering to contemplate before heading out there. 30' seas in the mid atlantic and nearly 40' seas off Alaska are quite impressive sounding now matter how big your cruising boat is. Rough seas like this are certainly of interest to the big guys (maritime and naval vessels). I have searched NOAA a bit and I can find no similar detail for the "roaring 40's" or the Indian Ocean. My question is, if you were say Kan Barnes trying to round the tip of S. America where could you get equivalent information and detail? Is this another case where HAM or SSB would help fill the gap (unless the gap is between my ears)?
Area Covered
Part of the problem may be the huge areas that are covered by a forcast. Using the NWS at Panama city the forcast is usually from Destin to Appalachicola out 20 miles. The weather often seems to stop at the beach. We were at St Joe Peninsula state park and the weather forcast was for rain all weekend. Well we had a great time and no rain. But we could see the rain over on the mainland. Sailing in the Keys we could see thunderstorms over the land almost every afternoon but they didn't come off the beach until one grabbed us near Key West. I suspect that if you made a forcast for a large enough area you could predict any weather and it would be true...somewhere in that area. Even a large lake can change the local weather. I noticed this recently with a fog that was around Wheeler Lake but no where else. I am sure that mountain sailers have noticed the effects that the sun on a mountain side has on local winds. Flying a small plane on some days a plowed field can create turbulance a couple thousand feet up. I guess that a lot of the variablity between predicted and observed winds depends upon these local features. The local effects can enhance or subtract from the general winds in the area. Generally the VHF weather forcasts that I have used have been reasonablly close to what is observed but the timing is off or more often not given. If I am planning to sail from Pensacola to Mobile with a SE wind at 15 kts that is great news. But if they fail to mention that the predicted wind won't start blowing until 3 PM it shoots my planning to be anchored by dark all to hell. I mention that because it happened. We waited all day with light breezes moving us west at 2-3 knots. We were lucky that we started leaving Fort McCree at dawn and were able to drop the anchor in Navy cove at sunset. But if I had known that the wind wouldn't start until mid afternoon I would have motored up the ditch. The worst to date was a forcast for light winds out of the southwest for St Joe. We anchored expecting the Northeast wind to die down and be replaced by the SW. Well we spent the night anchored just off the shore with a 15-25 knot wind from the northest and whitecaps pounding us towards the beach. Fortunately the two anchors held but we would have never anchored there without the favorable forcast. I decided about 10 pm that it was more dangerous to try to get off the anchors than it was to just sit tight. That damn wind died the next morning and we ended up motoring most of the way back to Panama city.
Part of the problem may be the huge areas that are covered by a forcast. Using the NWS at Panama city the forcast is usually from Destin to Appalachicola out 20 miles. The weather often seems to stop at the beach. We were at St Joe Peninsula state park and the weather forcast was for rain all weekend. Well we had a great time and no rain. But we could see the rain over on the mainland. Sailing in the Keys we could see thunderstorms over the land almost every afternoon but they didn't come off the beach until one grabbed us near Key West. I suspect that if you made a forcast for a large enough area you could predict any weather and it would be true...somewhere in that area. Even a large lake can change the local weather. I noticed this recently with a fog that was around Wheeler Lake but no where else. I am sure that mountain sailers have noticed the effects that the sun on a mountain side has on local winds. Flying a small plane on some days a plowed field can create turbulance a couple thousand feet up. I guess that a lot of the variablity between predicted and observed winds depends upon these local features. The local effects can enhance or subtract from the general winds in the area. Generally the VHF weather forcasts that I have used have been reasonablly close to what is observed but the timing is off or more often not given. If I am planning to sail from Pensacola to Mobile with a SE wind at 15 kts that is great news. But if they fail to mention that the predicted wind won't start blowing until 3 PM it shoots my planning to be anchored by dark all to hell. I mention that because it happened. We waited all day with light breezes moving us west at 2-3 knots. We were lucky that we started leaving Fort McCree at dawn and were able to drop the anchor in Navy cove at sunset. But if I had known that the wind wouldn't start until mid afternoon I would have motored up the ditch. The worst to date was a forcast for light winds out of the southwest for St Joe. We anchored expecting the Northeast wind to die down and be replaced by the SW. Well we spent the night anchored just off the shore with a 15-25 knot wind from the northest and whitecaps pounding us towards the beach. Fortunately the two anchors held but we would have never anchored there without the favorable forcast. I decided about 10 pm that it was more dangerous to try to get off the anchors than it was to just sit tight. That damn wind died the next morning and we ended up motoring most of the way back to Panama city.
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