Just bought a 1981 Hunter 27 and have yet to sail it. I'm told that weather helm is a problem and I wondered if that's true and if so, is there an after market alteration for the rudder, or something?
weather helm
- Thread starter castohoward
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Sail Trim!
Hi castohoward, At the risk of talking down to you which is not my intention (I don't know your level of experience), a bit of weather helm is a good thing for "feel" on the rudder and so the boat comes up into the wind if you let go of the tiller and the sheets. Excess weather helm can be a problem though in my view it's more a function of too much sail up for conditions or of improper sail trim. Some boats are more forgiving than others as it relates to excess weather helm and rig tuning can make a difference. My suggestion is try your boat out. If you get too much weather helm, paticularly when you are pointing, depower the sails by easing the sheets, by easing the traveller if you have one, or by reducing sail area. Hope this helps. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust h37.5
Hi castohoward, At the risk of talking down to you which is not my intention (I don't know your level of experience), a bit of weather helm is a good thing for "feel" on the rudder and so the boat comes up into the wind if you let go of the tiller and the sheets. Excess weather helm can be a problem though in my view it's more a function of too much sail up for conditions or of improper sail trim. Some boats are more forgiving than others as it relates to excess weather helm and rig tuning can make a difference. My suggestion is try your boat out. If you get too much weather helm, paticularly when you are pointing, depower the sails by easing the sheets, by easing the traveller if you have one, or by reducing sail area. Hope this helps. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust h37.5
Degree of weather helm is a relative term.
To what is excessive to some is very acceptable to others. Since you have not sailed the boat yet stop looking for a solution to a problem that may not be. Gary is very right in pointing to sail trim to maintain weather helm under control. The 27 has three attributes that magnifies it's reputation for excessive weather helm. It has a shallow draft model with a 3'4" keel which does not point very well, it is a head sail driven boat with a high aspect but small main and the factory models came with no traveller. Learn and practise trimming the boat and you will have no problems.
To what is excessive to some is very acceptable to others. Since you have not sailed the boat yet stop looking for a solution to a problem that may not be. Gary is very right in pointing to sail trim to maintain weather helm under control. The 27 has three attributes that magnifies it's reputation for excessive weather helm. It has a shallow draft model with a 3'4" keel which does not point very well, it is a head sail driven boat with a high aspect but small main and the factory models came with no traveller. Learn and practise trimming the boat and you will have no problems.
weather helm, lee helm basics
Because inquiring minds want to know If you are on a broad starboard tack (wind coming from the starboard side perpendicular to your course) and only have the jib up the boat will tent to turn "down wind". This is called lee helm because that is the direction (to leaward or away from the wind) you have to push a tiller to correct for it to stay on course. If you only have the mainsail up the boat will then to turn "up wind". This is called weather helm because that is the direction (to weather or into the wind) you have to push the tiller to stay on course. This happens due to there being more sail up on one side of the keel (either forward of the keel for lee helm or aft of the keel for weather helm) or the other. The boat wants to spin like a weather vane on its keel. Now put both sails up and you should be balanced right? Wrong! If one sail has more power (or less depending on how you look at it) the more powerful sail will produce lee (jib more powerful) or weather (mainsail more powerful) helm. It is quite simple with a beam wind. Going dead down wind with just the boom out to port you would tend to turn to starboard (there is no name for this) as the sail force is acting on one side of the keel (the port side). Turn ever so slightly to starboard and the term weather helm applies. The idea that the sail force can be applied "out over the water" and not actually pass through the boat is key to understanding sail balance. Another way to look at it is there is a point of sail (broad reach range) where with only the mainsail up you get neutral helm. I'll let you digest this one for a while and get into "going up hill" in a later post.
Because inquiring minds want to know If you are on a broad starboard tack (wind coming from the starboard side perpendicular to your course) and only have the jib up the boat will tent to turn "down wind". This is called lee helm because that is the direction (to leaward or away from the wind) you have to push a tiller to correct for it to stay on course. If you only have the mainsail up the boat will then to turn "up wind". This is called weather helm because that is the direction (to weather or into the wind) you have to push the tiller to stay on course. This happens due to there being more sail up on one side of the keel (either forward of the keel for lee helm or aft of the keel for weather helm) or the other. The boat wants to spin like a weather vane on its keel. Now put both sails up and you should be balanced right? Wrong! If one sail has more power (or less depending on how you look at it) the more powerful sail will produce lee (jib more powerful) or weather (mainsail more powerful) helm. It is quite simple with a beam wind. Going dead down wind with just the boom out to port you would tend to turn to starboard (there is no name for this) as the sail force is acting on one side of the keel (the port side). Turn ever so slightly to starboard and the term weather helm applies. The idea that the sail force can be applied "out over the water" and not actually pass through the boat is key to understanding sail balance. Another way to look at it is there is a point of sail (broad reach range) where with only the mainsail up you get neutral helm. I'll let you digest this one for a while and get into "going up hill" in a later post.
I would call that rounding up , Bill
Bill wrote: "Going dead down wind with just the boom out to port you would tend to turn to starboard (there is no name for this)". Although I think I got that one covered (i.e. "rounding up into the wind"), I will be the first to admit that there ARE quite conceivably some common sailing maneuvers/actions/procedures/events/mishaps (some of which I recall executing myself.....) for which nobody here on this board might be able to find the proper term. Can't be too many of those, though, as mankind has been hoisting sheets to the wind for an aaawfully loooong time! Have fun Flying Dutchman
Bill wrote: "Going dead down wind with just the boom out to port you would tend to turn to starboard (there is no name for this)". Although I think I got that one covered (i.e. "rounding up into the wind"), I will be the first to admit that there ARE quite conceivably some common sailing maneuvers/actions/procedures/events/mishaps (some of which I recall executing myself.....) for which nobody here on this board might be able to find the proper term. Can't be too many of those, though, as mankind has been hoisting sheets to the wind for an aaawfully loooong time! Have fun Flying Dutchman
thanx Gary
I appreciate your advice. I've sailed a 23' Seafarer for years but this is the first boat with a wheel rather than tiller. Some guy with a 1980 hunter 27 told me that handling was such a problem that he added 12 inches of homemade metal "fin" to the forward edge of his rudder and it helped. I'll do nothing of the sort without much thought and sailing first. thsnks again.----Howard
I appreciate your advice. I've sailed a 23' Seafarer for years but this is the first boat with a wheel rather than tiller. Some guy with a 1980 hunter 27 told me that handling was such a problem that he added 12 inches of homemade metal "fin" to the forward edge of his rudder and it helped. I'll do nothing of the sort without much thought and sailing first. thsnks again.----Howard
nice of you to take the time
Right Bill, that's a plate full. Let me work on that next week when the weather gets above 40 degrees again.-------Howard
Right Bill, that's a plate full. Let me work on that next week when the weather gets above 40 degrees again.-------Howard
two possibilities
If weather helm is a problem, get new sails. If broaching is a problem, get a new rudder. (Five will get you ten that neither of these is really a problem on your boat, not when properly sailed, which makes me tend to wonder whether you're getting bad advice from whomever told you that weather helm is a problem on your boat. If bad advice is a problem, of course, get new friends.)
If weather helm is a problem, get new sails. If broaching is a problem, get a new rudder. (Five will get you ten that neither of these is really a problem on your boat, not when properly sailed, which makes me tend to wonder whether you're getting bad advice from whomever told you that weather helm is a problem on your boat. If bad advice is a problem, of course, get new friends.)
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