My 1982 Hunter 30 seems to have excessive weather helm. In 15 - 20 knot winds, it takes all my strength to hold her on a course about 30 degrees off the wind. My girlfriend is not strong enough to hold a steady course. Is this related to sail trim, or could it be my mast? In a recent survey, the surveyor remarked that the mast is raked slightly back, from the spreaders to the masthead. He said that was common on racing boats, but I don't plan to race. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Sail Trim
Are you reefing your mainsail and / or reducing your headsail? Are you sheeting out a little to reduce heel? If you get your sails balanced for the wind conditions, you should have a balanced rudder that should not require a lot of strength to maintain your course.
Are you reefing your mainsail and / or reducing your headsail? Are you sheeting out a little to reduce heel? If you get your sails balanced for the wind conditions, you should have a balanced rudder that should not require a lot of strength to maintain your course.
Dreamboat: I assume you have a fractional rig -what size jib do you have? 15 to 20 knots of wind is a lot of power to deal with and the mainsail on a fractional rig is like a giant rudder and you need a jib of sufficient size that can offset some of that tendency. You can also trim the main to reduce some or most of its power. You could also throw in a reef, which would also reduce power. Are you familiar with all the mainsail sail trim controls such as the outhaul, boom vang, traveler etc and how they work? Actually, your problem is easy to correct with some simple sail trim adjustments. How does the boat handle is say 10 knots of wind?
It's a masthead rig
Don, It is a masthead rig, and I am currently running a 130 genoa. I am familiar with the mainsail trim controls; the outhaul is tight (to flatten the main), the boom vang is tight (to flatten the main?), and the traveller is almost midships. I was enjoying the speed (almost hull speed), and didn't want to reduce the power. The boat handles very well in 10 to 15 knots of wind. Is it a question of speed equals weather helm, or can you have one without the other? I know I need to learn a lot about sail trim, and I plan to purchase your book and sail trim chart, as soon as I can find them in a local bookstore. Thanks in advance for the help.
Don, It is a masthead rig, and I am currently running a 130 genoa. I am familiar with the mainsail trim controls; the outhaul is tight (to flatten the main), the boom vang is tight (to flatten the main?), and the traveller is almost midships. I was enjoying the speed (almost hull speed), and didn't want to reduce the power. The boat handles very well in 10 to 15 knots of wind. Is it a question of speed equals weather helm, or can you have one without the other? I know I need to learn a lot about sail trim, and I plan to purchase your book and sail trim chart, as soon as I can find them in a local bookstore. Thanks in advance for the help.
Get Don's book and Chart
I experienced the same thing on my C38 when I first started sailing her. I quickly purchased Dons sail trim chart and his book, I still have a lot to learn but the difference is amazing. I am not sailing much at the moment ( winter here ) But the last decent sail I had was in 24-28 knots I had a full sail set and she handled beautifully, she was a little heavy at the helm but I think that was due to my lack of experience, I would have reefed the main had I been planing a long sail. Sail trim is the secret dreamboat. Good luck
I experienced the same thing on my C38 when I first started sailing her. I quickly purchased Dons sail trim chart and his book, I still have a lot to learn but the difference is amazing. I am not sailing much at the moment ( winter here ) But the last decent sail I had was in 24-28 knots I had a full sail set and she handled beautifully, she was a little heavy at the helm but I think that was due to my lack of experience, I would have reefed the main had I been planing a long sail. Sail trim is the secret dreamboat. Good luck
Weatherhelm
Dreamboat: The only place you can get my book and chart is throught the ship store on this site. While you in the ships store, take a look at all the other great sailing stuff they sell. To all the mates reading this - if you have the choice between buying it at sailboatowners.com or West Marine, the question you have to ask yourself is what has West Marine done for you lately? Do they provide you with this great sailing web site? Give sailboatowners.com a crack at your marine business. This site provides free info but it cost money to run it. Dreamboat, you seem to know more about sail trim than you give yourself credit for. Most sailors can't give a reason for what they do and you have a reason for your adjustments. Your set up is fine with the 130 and I think I see the problem. The next time your in the situation you describe try this - drop the traveler down a bit and ease the mainsheet. What you are doing with that is reducing the angle of attack. The more you crank in on the angle of attack, the more power you generate. Tightening the outhaul is fine as you are reducing the draft depth (belly). When you ease the outhaul you are increasing the belly and the more belly you put in the sail - up to a point- the more power you apply. In this situation we are trying to depower the sail so tight is the way to go. A flat sail is a less powerful sail. Here's part of the problem - by tightening the boom vang and mainsheet you are powering up the sail because you are eliminating twist by closing the top part of the sail. Try loosening the boom vang and mainsheet, which will open up the top portion of the sail and spill out air thus reducing power. You can have speed without weatherhelm. Dial in the sail trim controls to a point just after weather helm is felt. A little weathehelm is OK because it generates lift. The boat is powered by lift and you get lift from the sails, the keel and the rudder so about 5 degrees of weatherhelm on the rudder is just about right. After that you just fighting yourself and your girlfriend will get sick of going sailing with you!! If this works, remember to tell your girlfriend you learned it from the nice bloke on the sail trim forum. If it doesn't work, tell her it was all your idea and you have to keep working on it!!!!
Dreamboat: The only place you can get my book and chart is throught the ship store on this site. While you in the ships store, take a look at all the other great sailing stuff they sell. To all the mates reading this - if you have the choice between buying it at sailboatowners.com or West Marine, the question you have to ask yourself is what has West Marine done for you lately? Do they provide you with this great sailing web site? Give sailboatowners.com a crack at your marine business. This site provides free info but it cost money to run it. Dreamboat, you seem to know more about sail trim than you give yourself credit for. Most sailors can't give a reason for what they do and you have a reason for your adjustments. Your set up is fine with the 130 and I think I see the problem. The next time your in the situation you describe try this - drop the traveler down a bit and ease the mainsheet. What you are doing with that is reducing the angle of attack. The more you crank in on the angle of attack, the more power you generate. Tightening the outhaul is fine as you are reducing the draft depth (belly). When you ease the outhaul you are increasing the belly and the more belly you put in the sail - up to a point- the more power you apply. In this situation we are trying to depower the sail so tight is the way to go. A flat sail is a less powerful sail. Here's part of the problem - by tightening the boom vang and mainsheet you are powering up the sail because you are eliminating twist by closing the top part of the sail. Try loosening the boom vang and mainsheet, which will open up the top portion of the sail and spill out air thus reducing power. You can have speed without weatherhelm. Dial in the sail trim controls to a point just after weather helm is felt. A little weathehelm is OK because it generates lift. The boat is powered by lift and you get lift from the sails, the keel and the rudder so about 5 degrees of weatherhelm on the rudder is just about right. After that you just fighting yourself and your girlfriend will get sick of going sailing with you!! If this works, remember to tell your girlfriend you learned it from the nice bloke on the sail trim forum. If it doesn't work, tell her it was all your idea and you have to keep working on it!!!!
Talk to others that have your same boat
Ask if they have that much rake in the mast? If it was raked back enough for a surveyor to comment then maybe you need to have a good rigger adjust the rigging. Once its done right and you watch them you should be able to repeat this closely. It will be worth the money invested. Take a look at Brion Toss's website, he has an excellent video you might want to purchase on setting & adjusting the rigging. https://satsop.olympus.net/wkstone/webkeystone.py?idCard=KV2aOVz4Ye73HvqGyXCA92haRV7Ab4M7_1319&pCode=30-TUN-000&UserID=biz_briontoss&Profile=[shopper
ublicprof/gotoPage.prof] If you adjust the sails properly, I personally don't really think you should get that bad of weather helm in 15-20 knots, but I don't know the design of the boat and how it normally is. But if your mast is truely raked back too far , that means that the center of effort on the mainsail is moved back which will create a stronger leverage arm behind the pivot point(center) of your boat thus turning it to weather. Think about it, it makes sense you might be getting weather helm from the excessive rake . I don't know this boat, but if its anything like most masthead Catalinas then the masts like to be fairly close to vertical. When they are the boat is balanced very well and will still keep a good course hard on the wind even when it picks up. Here is some more reading http://www.endeavourowners.com/dscsn/handling/wthrhlm.html
Ask if they have that much rake in the mast? If it was raked back enough for a surveyor to comment then maybe you need to have a good rigger adjust the rigging. Once its done right and you watch them you should be able to repeat this closely. It will be worth the money invested. Take a look at Brion Toss's website, he has an excellent video you might want to purchase on setting & adjusting the rigging. https://satsop.olympus.net/wkstone/webkeystone.py?idCard=KV2aOVz4Ye73HvqGyXCA92haRV7Ab4M7_1319&pCode=30-TUN-000&UserID=biz_briontoss&Profile=[shopper
ublicprof/gotoPage.prof] If you adjust the sails properly, I personally don't really think you should get that bad of weather helm in 15-20 knots, but I don't know the design of the boat and how it normally is. But if your mast is truely raked back too far , that means that the center of effort on the mainsail is moved back which will create a stronger leverage arm behind the pivot point(center) of your boat thus turning it to weather. Think about it, it makes sense you might be getting weather helm from the excessive rake . I don't know this boat, but if its anything like most masthead Catalinas then the masts like to be fairly close to vertical. When they are the boat is balanced very well and will still keep a good course hard on the wind even when it picks up. Here is some more reading http://www.endeavourowners.com/dscsn/handling/wthrhlm.html- Status