I'm new to the sport so have patience with me. I moved from an S2 to an H34 and question it's sailing charistics. With the sails properly trimmed, in 10 knots and above winds my boat experiences a lot Weather Helm in Close Hauled to Beam Reach conditions. The intensity increases with wind and boat speed. At 7 knots (boat speed true)the pull on the wheel is around 15 lbs. The ST4000 will not hold a course over 5.5 knots. My Hunter is fitted with a 115 or so jib and the standard main (including the 4 inch boom drop). The mast is 48 feet tall (from the deck) It is 52 feet tall from the water. I have tried to trim the WH out with the sails. Releasing the main to the point of flaping reduces the pull. It this condition normal or should I tune the mast aft? Please help
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Trim to reduce weather helm
If your sails are in reasonable condition, when the wind builds past 10 knots, tighten your outhaul to flatten the bottom of the main and move your traveler to windward 2-4 inches above the centerline to put some twist in the main. Assuming you have teltales on the end of each batten pocket, adjust your traveler and mainsheet untill all mainsail telltales are flowing. When you are as close to the wind as possible and the main is as flat as possible and all telltales are flowing you have done all you can with the main. trim your jib using it's telltales and moving the sheet lead fore and aft untill all teltales are flowing. Now what is your weather helm condition? If you have a 110 jib and a shoal draft keel, you will probably need the mast set up almost straight up in the boat to reduce weather helm. If you've done all you can to flatten the main and the draft in the main is still too deep you can go to the first reef and see if that ballances the boat better. Beyond that point maybe you should consider a new or re-cut main.
If your sails are in reasonable condition, when the wind builds past 10 knots, tighten your outhaul to flatten the bottom of the main and move your traveler to windward 2-4 inches above the centerline to put some twist in the main. Assuming you have teltales on the end of each batten pocket, adjust your traveler and mainsheet untill all mainsail telltales are flowing. When you are as close to the wind as possible and the main is as flat as possible and all telltales are flowing you have done all you can with the main. trim your jib using it's telltales and moving the sheet lead fore and aft untill all teltales are flowing. Now what is your weather helm condition? If you have a 110 jib and a shoal draft keel, you will probably need the mast set up almost straight up in the boat to reduce weather helm. If you've done all you can to flatten the main and the draft in the main is still too deep you can go to the first reef and see if that ballances the boat better. Beyond that point maybe you should consider a new or re-cut main.
bad advice
Can't say I agree with Stu's advice. Never bring your boom above centerline, it's a sure way to make your round-ups more violent. If you have weather helm, what you want to do is get the twist OUT of the sail, not increase it. Mainsheet in, traveller out. Get that baby flat. ........... Your boat shouldn't be as tender as you describe. Might be a good time to have a sailmaker take a look at your main. When a sail stretches out the draft moves aft and it tends to produce more weather helm than lift.
Can't say I agree with Stu's advice. Never bring your boom above centerline, it's a sure way to make your round-ups more violent. If you have weather helm, what you want to do is get the twist OUT of the sail, not increase it. Mainsheet in, traveller out. Get that baby flat. ........... Your boat shouldn't be as tender as you describe. Might be a good time to have a sailmaker take a look at your main. When a sail stretches out the draft moves aft and it tends to produce more weather helm than lift.
Spot on John
And if all that does not work take a close look to how much rake is in the mast. Perhaps it needs moving forward a little. (and I'm not talking about mast bend!)
And if all that does not work take a close look to how much rake is in the mast. Perhaps it needs moving forward a little. (and I'm not talking about mast bend!)
Note to John
John, I was attempting to flatten my main in the same fashion you describe and basically tore it in half. I also suffer from excessive weather helm and now follow a set sequence. Tighten outhaul, tighten main halyard to flatten sail. Ease traveller and tighten main sheet with now more moderate tention. As wind builds or WH increases then I build twist in by moving traveller to windward and easing mainsheet. I have a backstay tensioner but I am unclear as to what effect that has on WH. Comments welcome,
John, I was attempting to flatten my main in the same fashion you describe and basically tore it in half. I also suffer from excessive weather helm and now follow a set sequence. Tighten outhaul, tighten main halyard to flatten sail. Ease traveller and tighten main sheet with now more moderate tention. As wind builds or WH increases then I build twist in by moving traveller to windward and easing mainsheet. I have a backstay tensioner but I am unclear as to what effect that has on WH. Comments welcome,
John, I understood Stu to be recommending
that the traveler be pulled to windward. I don't think he was referring to the boom being pulled above center. But then too, pulling the car up and over the CL, should only be done in light air. When the wind builds, lower it. Unless you're recommending some kind of a test, Stu?
that the traveler be pulled to windward. I don't think he was referring to the boom being pulled above center. But then too, pulling the car up and over the CL, should only be done in light air. When the wind builds, lower it. Unless you're recommending some kind of a test, Stu?
boggie with Stu
Good posts all. But I'm with Stu on this one. I too read his post to mean shifting the traveler to windward while the boom is to the lee. At 10 knots apparent wind there should be some twist to prevent the top of the sail from stalling. The upper sail stall feels like a tender boat and contributes to a strong WH. Something is wrong if one needs to reef at 10 knots to correct WH. Perhaps an older main? Happy Days Rich
Good posts all. But I'm with Stu on this one. I too read his post to mean shifting the traveler to windward while the boom is to the lee. At 10 knots apparent wind there should be some twist to prevent the top of the sail from stalling. The upper sail stall feels like a tender boat and contributes to a strong WH. Something is wrong if one needs to reef at 10 knots to correct WH. Perhaps an older main? Happy Days Rich
Teltales & twist
I intended to describe a way to open the leach of the main, induce twist and keep the teltales flowing. Excessive Weather Helm at 10 knots sounds like it could be an overtrimmed main, and those that questioned the age and/or depth of the main are correct as well. Again, try moving the traveler a couple inches to windward of the centerline, let out the main sheet and trim to get all the teltales flowing, then follow-up with jib or Genoa trim.
I intended to describe a way to open the leach of the main, induce twist and keep the teltales flowing. Excessive Weather Helm at 10 knots sounds like it could be an overtrimmed main, and those that questioned the age and/or depth of the main are correct as well. Again, try moving the traveler a couple inches to windward of the centerline, let out the main sheet and trim to get all the teltales flowing, then follow-up with jib or Genoa trim.
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