Re: We try a new to us technique for dealing with soft decks
This one had several thousand screws set through the core for a teak deck.
This one had several thousand screws set through the core for a teak deck.
We try a new to us technique for dealing with soft decks.
- Thread starter CharlieCobra
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Re: We try a new to us technique for dealing with soft decks
What about this for getting the moisture out of the core... Inject isopropyl alcohol in under pressure to displace the water. I know wood workers will use alcohol to dry wood. And following up with 4-5 psi of air pressure to evaporate the alcohol that remains..
i know we are talking about taking a shortcut.. which is what this is, and the best way to make a repair in this situation is to recore the deck.. but on a old boat that only has a few seasons left in her, this could extend her life..
just bouncing the idea here..
What about this for getting the moisture out of the core... Inject isopropyl alcohol in under pressure to displace the water. I know wood workers will use alcohol to dry wood. And following up with 4-5 psi of air pressure to evaporate the alcohol that remains..
i know we are talking about taking a shortcut.. which is what this is, and the best way to make a repair in this situation is to recore the deck.. but on a old boat that only has a few seasons left in her, this could extend her life..
just bouncing the idea here..
I like this a lot - especially because it would seem you could drill the holes from either side.
I think far too much time, money and worry is spent in spent "fixing to better than new" isolated patches of deck core -- at the expense of things that are far more important to the seaworthiness of the boat. To name one - oxygen starved stainless chainplates.
While I'm sure it's happened, I personally don't know of a single situation where there was a structural failure from deck core rot in a well built fiberglass boat (not counting hardware with no backing plates pulling out which happens rot or not).
Perfect is the enemy of good.
Carl
I think far too much time, money and worry is spent in spent "fixing to better than new" isolated patches of deck core -- at the expense of things that are far more important to the seaworthiness of the boat. To name one - oxygen starved stainless chainplates.
While I'm sure it's happened, I personally don't know of a single situation where there was a structural failure from deck core rot in a well built fiberglass boat (not counting hardware with no backing plates pulling out which happens rot or not).
Perfect is the enemy of good.
Carl
Re: We try a new to us technique for dealing with soft decks
This thread certainly turned out to be my longest and most controversial on the forum to date. I reckon that beats no replies...
This thread certainly turned out to be my longest and most controversial on the forum to date. I reckon that beats no replies...
carl
Those oxygen starved chainplates are only an issue if they are wet - as in going through wet core.
Yes, if you have a wreck near the end of her life a quick fix makes sense. I don't think most of us do though.
Those oxygen starved chainplates are only an issue if they are wet - as in going through wet core.
Yes, if you have a wreck near the end of her life a quick fix makes sense. I don't think most of us do though.
I think Charlies method has a lot of merit and will tuck it away for possible future use.
Personally, I wouldn't buy a boat that has deck core problems but that's just me.
Personally, I wouldn't buy a boat that has deck core problems but that's just me.
A large percentage of older boats have some level of moisture in their decks or were re-cored to fix the problem. Hopefully any fix done wasn't a quickie but a proper one.
Re: We try a new to us technique for dealing with soft decks
Ok, the was a report on an experimental (to us) stopgap method used due to time and funds or the lack thereof. I would personally recommend the proper core R&R method of cutting out the old core, laying in new core and reglassing. This was an experiment to see if the old issues with epoxy injection (little towers of epoxy surrounded by wet slop) could be avoided.
Remember, just because you read about something done up here, don't think that it's the proper way of doing things or even a good way. It's just something we were forced to do. You can put it in your arsenal if ya like but it ain't Gosphel but any means.
Personally, I would modify this by vacuuming (with a vacuum pump) the water out of the core (water boils at room temp in a vacuum). Then I would inject CPES using this method because it propagates better than any other epoxy system. Only then would I follow with Silvertip or similar product to re-adhere the laminate to the now, reconstituted core.
Ok, the was a report on an experimental (to us) stopgap method used due to time and funds or the lack thereof. I would personally recommend the proper core R&R method of cutting out the old core, laying in new core and reglassing. This was an experiment to see if the old issues with epoxy injection (little towers of epoxy surrounded by wet slop) could be avoided.
Remember, just because you read about something done up here, don't think that it's the proper way of doing things or even a good way. It's just something we were forced to do. You can put it in your arsenal if ya like but it ain't Gosphel but any means.
Personally, I would modify this by vacuuming (with a vacuum pump) the water out of the core (water boils at room temp in a vacuum). Then I would inject CPES using this method because it propagates better than any other epoxy system. Only then would I follow with Silvertip or similar product to re-adhere the laminate to the now, reconstituted core.
Charlie, thanks for the post. We'll be most interested in how it stands up.
Our cockpit floor had only a few small soft areas. The core in the spots was still fairly dry from being well-covered yet ventilated over the winter. I drilled above and below, flushed the spots with acetone, let it dry more for a couple of weeks, then poured runny epoxy in (pressure would have been better). I then sealed and added extra bracing from below. This has been sufficient and rigid for a few seasons now.
... could just about dry the core out, maybe.
Our cockpit floor had only a few small soft areas. The core in the spots was still fairly dry from being well-covered yet ventilated over the winter. I drilled above and below, flushed the spots with acetone, let it dry more for a couple of weeks, then poured runny epoxy in (pressure would have been better). I then sealed and added extra bracing from below. This has been sufficient and rigid for a few seasons now.
Some combination of using acetone or alcohol to carry water out, plus your vacuum idea, plus a long dry winter on the hard
... could just about dry the core out, maybe.
Where do you buy the epoxy in a grease cartridge?
how do you get it in the grease gun tube or do you buy it that way?
Re: We try a new to us technique for dealing with soft decks
I have a small spot on my deck I plan to experiment with. I know there is moisture present. I plan to try Gorrilla glue, and pump it in under pressure. A little water won't hurt, as the glue uses water to chemically convert to a stiff foam. It should both adhere well and fill any gaps. If it doesn't work; it will be easier to remove than epoxy. The Gorrilla glue also will not get hot or harden in the grease gun.
We'll see what happens....
I have a small spot on my deck I plan to experiment with. I know there is moisture present. I plan to try Gorrilla glue, and pump it in under pressure. A little water won't hurt, as the glue uses water to chemically convert to a stiff foam. It should both adhere well and fill any gaps. If it doesn't work; it will be easier to remove than epoxy. The Gorrilla glue also will not get hot or harden in the grease gun.
We'll see what happens....
Remember that Gorilla glue will expand as it sets. Epoxy doesn't. This could put pressure where you don't want it.
Re: We try a new to us technique for dealing with soft decks
I'm sure there is a learning curve for guessing the amount of Gorrilla glue to inject. I plan to do only a small area at a time. I also plan to drill small relief holes to allow excess foam to escape.
I once built a plywood dingy in 2 days, at a camp site using a handsaw and a handcrank drill, using Gorilla glue to seal all seams. It is completely waterproof and fills gaps. The boat never leaked a drop. The glue did not seem to foam out that much.
I'm sure there is a learning curve for guessing the amount of Gorrilla glue to inject. I plan to do only a small area at a time. I also plan to drill small relief holes to allow excess foam to escape.
I once built a plywood dingy in 2 days, at a camp site using a handsaw and a handcrank drill, using Gorilla glue to seal all seams. It is completely waterproof and fills gaps. The boat never leaked a drop. The glue did not seem to foam out that much.
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