We try a new to us technique for dealing with soft decks.

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May 5, 2006
1,140
Knutson K-35 Yawl Bellingham
As you know, we just finished the Hunter 54. On inspection,found about six feet of the the 300+ Lbs owner side deck flexing under his weight, not good. Faced with the mess and expense of core replacement on a boat with no money left in it, I decided to try a trick this same owner suggested for sopt wet core repairs. I mean, why the hell not right?

The fix is something he used some 20 years ago and the boat's still good. So, I went out and bought a manual greasegun, System 3 "Silvertip" Laminating Epoxy (which I really like after using it) and some grease zerts.
Arianna or Arie as she likes to be called, (my new assistant), and I, loaded up the cart and went on deck to puzzle this out. I started with two rows of holes drilled to the bottom of the core, which was wet, and inserted the zerts (grease nipples). This was problematic as the damned things didn't wanna go in so with judicious use of a hammer and a socket, we got them in. Drilling the holes 3" apart turned out to be way to close as the epoxy started pouring out of adjacent holes immediately on pumping.

After doing those first holes, I settled on a square pattern with holes in the corners, about 6-8" apart and one in the center. This worked well and each hole took 10-15 pumps before epoxy started flowing out of adjacent holes. Another problem with the zerts is that they pull out of the holes 99% of the time when you attempt to pull the gun off. If you don't leave the gun on for at least 30 seconds for the pressure to dissipate, you're rewarded with an instant backflow of most of the epoxy you just injected.

You can tell that it's working as you move to new holes when epoxy starts flowing from the holes you left again and also from holes you haven't yet injected.

Word to the wise, do not open the gun to check it because it's getting hot. The 200F catalyzing epoxy under pressure will burn the piss out of your hands no matter the thickness of your gloves. Thankfully, Arie was quick to yank them off of me before I got scalded. Very sharp and observant Lass that Arie.

So, we continued to drill holes and inject epoxy along that 18"X72" section. BTW, if you have a break in the bottom skin, you WILL find it or at least the epoxy will. This is a very messy procedure so make sure you have an entire box of good, thick gloves, a large bag of rags and a gallon or two of DeNatured Alcohol.

It took about three hours to finish the job and we left it to cure. he next day, we sent our own 300 pounder up to walk the decks. wow! It actually works! Just a bit of fairing and deck paint and it's DONE! Sweet!

Apparently the key here is hydraulic pressure which gets the epoxy into and through the wet core. You can see water being displaced as you pump epoxy in. The System 3 Laminating apparently cures just fine in wet core.
 
Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
Re: We try a new to us technique for dealing with soft decks

So do we understand that you leave a "zerk" in every hole that you pressure the epoxy into? How many grease zerks are required for that size project? Did you try adjusting the gun for less pressure around the zerks? That's a nice solution to the problem. I hope I can remember it when the time comes.
 
May 5, 2006
1,140
Knutson K-35 Yawl Bellingham
Re: We try a new to us technique for dealing with soft decks

I had four and just moved them to new holes as I went. This allowed epoxy to flow out where it needed to and didn't cause the deck to bulge up from too much pressure.
 
Jan 4, 2009
45
Newport N28II Seabrook Ship Yard, TX
I'm not familiar with the type of grease gun you are referring to. I've always used the kind that took a cartridge. Do you have a link to the grease gun somewhere on the net?
 
Oct 26, 2005
2,057
- - Satellite Beach, FL.
Re: We try a new to us technique for dealing with soft decks

Very cool! Thanks for sharing this!
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
Re: We try a new to us technique for dealing with soft decks

Just curious if you inject epoxy into these holes and it did NOT do the job, how would you have removed the deck to replace the core?
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Re: We try a new to us technique for dealing with soft decks

I have done this with termite damage and I used empty new caulk cartridges and filled epoxy. Drilled 1/4 inch holes and when the epoxy started to come out of a hole I jambed a wooden plug in and kept pumping. Could only mixt one tube full at a time. When epoxy gets hot it hardens very quickly. I mixed the epoxy in quart size zipper freezer weight bags and snipped a corner to fill the caulk tube.
 
Jan 22, 2008
280
Hunter 25_73-83 NORTH POINT MARINA/WINTHROP HA IL
Charlie, How does the epoxy bond to the wet core/mush/fiberglass skin? Even CPES needs to be dried before application with only a residual amount of moisture tolerated. It seems the most you could hope for would be that the epoxy fills the void between the mushy core and the top skin with little or no adhesion and certainly no long term stregthening but rather a invisible floating mess. Best, Ron
 
Sep 29, 2008
1,981
Catalina 310 #185 Quantico
Charlie, you post some real interesting stuff

This was was very interesting.

:theman:
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Charlie, How does the epoxy bond to the wet core/mush/fiberglass skin? Even CPES needs to be dried before application with only a residual amount of moisture tolerated. It seems the most you could hope for would be that the epoxy fills the void between the mushy core and the top skin with little or no adhesion and certainly no long term stregthening but rather a invisible floating mess. Best, Ron
Epoxy will stick to water wet surfaces, try it.
 
Apr 8, 2010
1,606
Frers 33 41426 Westport, CT
Can you post links to go the gun and zerk fittings you used for this? i have a spot about 2'x2' that is a tad soft and i have been putting off doing something about it as i didn't want something overly invasive / expensive. This sounds like a great method for my situation.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,432
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Re: We try a new to us technique for dealing with soft decks

I second the motion ... I am curious about the size holes you drilled. It sounds like the diameter is just enough to force the zerts in. It sounds like you are detaching the zerts to contain the epoxy for a short period and then removing them to move along. If you had to force them in with a hammer, I wondered why you didn't expand the hole slightly, but I suppose that you couldn't inject the epoxy under pressure if you made the holes too big. So how did you remove the zerts if they were that hard to get in? Pliers?
 
May 5, 2006
1,140
Knutson K-35 Yawl Bellingham
Re: We try a new to us technique for dealing with soft decks

The zerts came out in the gun tip because the threads couldn't really bite in the glass. I wanted the fit tight enough not to blow the zert out when I applied pressure so the epoxy would be forced laterally throughout the core. The gun is a standard bulk (steel tube) grease gun available at any good hardware store. The zerts came in a pack of eight, 4 1/4" NPT angled and 4 1/4"-28 straights. Nothing special just use what you can find.
 
Jan 22, 2008
280
Hunter 25_73-83 NORTH POINT MARINA/WINTHROP HA IL
Epoxy will stick to water wet surfaces, try it.

Ross, How does epoxy stick to a wet, degraded, mushy core? It defies the law of physics. I can see, perhaps, it sticking to the outer skin, but not the core, in which case you still have a floating mess inside with little or no structure. Best, Ron
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
Re: We try a new to us technique for dealing with soft decks

Well someone rewrote those laws cause it does stick to stuff even when underwater. One of the best things about epoxy IMHO.
Men with experiences are never at the mercy of a men with theories.
 
Jan 22, 2008
280
Hunter 25_73-83 NORTH POINT MARINA/WINTHROP HA IL
Well someone rewrote those laws cause it does stick to stuff even when underwater. One of the best things about epoxy IMHO.
Men with experiences are never at the mercy of a men with theories.

Bill, I think it's a bit unfair to assume lack of experience in someone you don't know personally or think you might know by his/her internet presence. My intention is not to list my accomplishments or achievements but rather to pass along practical knowledge and experience in working with fiberglass. There is no way in this physical world that epoxy will stick to a wet mushy core. Period. Good luck and good sailing, Ron
 

BillyK

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Jan 24, 2010
502
Catalina 310 Ocean City, NJ
Re: We try a new to us technique for dealing with soft decks

Sounds like a good solution to a bad problem.. I am constantly amazed by the power of epoxy... i don't know why more things aren't made out of the stuff..
 
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