We Have Three Main Questions with..........

BobM · Nov 16, 2009

Check out Yachtworld. There is a 1976 CT, which is a a Perry designed classic 34' Cutter with a Canoe stern. All rigged out for cruising already and only $30K. Wind vane self steering...wind generator...windlass...lots of recent updates. Just be careful...looks like she went cruising in the early 2000's and may need to be refreshed. I went West Coast from Utah. She is sitting in Sausalito, CA...a very nice place to hang out. Quite a boat to sail away into your sunset years on!

Have you considered abandoning Utah for the Coast? It is tough to sit in a land locked state and dream of coastal cruising. I'd find a nice boat in a nice location and live aboard and learn. San Fracisco Bay is a nice proving ground...although the wait for a slip might be horrendous. Getting the rights to a slip with the boat would be great, but might bump the cost a bit.

sevencome11 · Nov 16, 2009

as to buying boat : e bay motors is full of boats in your price range.

Stu Jackson · Nov 16, 2009

BobM said:
She is sitting in Sausalito, CA...a very nice place to hang out. San Fracisco Bay is a nice proving ground...although the wait for a slip might be horrendous.

Not.

zeehag · Nov 16, 2009

that little ct is awesome and those perry designs are excellent cruisers--sturdy boats. they are larger feeling inside than most of the "lighter" brands.....and the lines are great!!---if you look farther out of the city--up the delta, there are some quaint little marinas and some newer ones mixed in---lovely scenery and the sacto river is right there--no bridges to the sf bay ---try looking there if interests ye.......i was looking there a coupla yrs ago.....was going to take my ericson there...until i found the formosa 41...

captmick39 · Nov 16, 2009

Mr. Sumner,
(I was always taught to address my elders in this fashion

), At 50 I'm still anxiously awaiting a single handed circumnavigation and have been equipping a 39'er (LOA) for the trip for several years now.
The First Response was almost exactly what mine would be...IF You look at an older, mor solid boat ("classic Plastic" we like to call them), and spent the saved money on updated electronics, winches, Solid vang, RF (if not presently equipped), & electric windlass. Updates like LED bulbs make electrical management much simpler. We have both Airex And Solar (although attaching solar panels to OUTSIDE the lifeline stancheons makes for zero square inches of lost deck space), as well as a small Honda (EU 2000) generator which gets used so often we have to change the fuel before starting nearly every time. We also have 30W worth of panels in the top of the Bimini & Dodger. I updated the house batteries w/4 8D's below the settee's where there was much dead space, they're hooked up to a Zantrex 3kw inverter, we can do about anything electrically speaking (aside running the AC on the hook) including running up 100M of 3/8" chain on that windlass. As for cruising the ICW (Ditch as You ref'd), or coastal Cruising, I'd seriously tell You to take a look at what we own or thereabouts, 35'-40' Pearsons, we have a classic P-39, 1975 vintage, makes great speed under sail or power, lots of room for 2 people, & the occasional "dinner guests", yet not so much boat properly equipped that You couldn't handle it by your self (or herself when You're catching some z's, especially w/a GPS interfaced AP...off course? push a button to move to port or starboard 1 degree at a time, problem solved. So simple ANY BODY can operate them these days. Installing RF on Your main makes life almost as easy as lines all tailing to cockpit (which makes for 1heluva mess if You don't have them organized AND plenty of room therein for same), and anything shy of serious overkill on electronics or electric remote controlled winches would hold it's value and add to that of the boat. There are some exceptionally well cared for specimens out there suitable for offshore cruising, even if that's not suitable for You. I agree that tailoring what You have would be fruitless as it's simply too small for extended cruising...You'd drive each other crazy. (been there, done that on a 28'er)
Hoping something in here helped;
-Mick

Harley18471 · Nov 16, 2009

Depends On

First, Ruth and I bought a MacGregor 26S last January with no previous sailing experience and with not much of an option for getting experience except for reading and fumbling our way through it.

We spent quite a bit of time setting the boat up for cruising.....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/macgregor-index.html

and have managed to get out with it and take some really nice trips........

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor-trips-1/macgregor-trips-1-index.html

We have been posting on the Mac Forum, but we felt these questions would be best answered here. We love the Mac and don't have any plans of selling her. It is the perfect boat for us living in the middle of the desert in SE Utah since we have to trailer a ways to find water. It also has let us see places and have the flexibility to go places we couldn't with a larger sailboat. Now saying that we have thought about an even longer extended trip than what we have done with the Mac, so.............

1. I'm 65 in good shape and have no problem going forward on the Mac to handle the sails and such and deal with a 22 lb. Bruce and 30 foot of chain each night (but this is about my limit). Ruth is a year older and also in good shape, but her balance isn't so good, so she mans the rudder most of the time and the outboard when it is needed and she can handle the sheets in the cockpit.

If we bought a boat in the 30-35 foot range how physical is it handling the sails and anchoring? Be honest, would we be unrealistic thinking at our age (plus a couple more years added on) that we could handle a boat doing coastal sailing? Say down the west coast, Mexico, Central America and through the ditch and up the east coast? We wouldn't be crossing an ocean.

2. Could we find a 30-35 foot boat in the $35,000-$45,000 range that would be fitted out to take the trip without throwing a lot more time and money into it? I don't have the time to work on it for a year or so. A couple months would be ok. If we would do this we need to do it pretty much in the next year or so.

It wouldn't matter much to us if we started on the East Coast somewhere or the West Coast, so would one be better than the other finding a boat and/or sailing direction?

3. At the end of a year if we wanted to sell the boat and were welling to take a $5000-$8000 loss on it so that we didn't have it on the market for ever would it be reasonable to think we could sell if fairly quickly? I realize this question presents a lot of variables and might tie back into which coast we bought the boat on and which coast we sold it on, but maybe not.

Well that's it. We would like to hear any and all opinions on this and ....

Thanks,

Sum and Ruth

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT -- Kootenay Lake, Canada -- Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links[/quote]
I am 85 years old and have no problem handling a 30 foot Newport by myself. It depends on your overall competence and physical shape. Sounds to me like you should crawl before you run, however. I am not going offshore anymore in anything less than a 200 foot ship. Suggest you bite off inshore stuff enough to feel at ease, before you get too involved.

Albanach · Nov 17, 2009

BobM said:
This can certainly be done, but having just moved up from a 25 to a 30 at 42 years of age, it is a measurable increase in work all around.

Everything is bigger and there is a learning curve for working smarter not harder. Things you used to bare hand (pulling the jib sheet in) or do no problem solo (raising / removing a sail) will give you trouble until you figure out how to do them better (I found some feeder rings on board I used to raise the genoa solo...worked awesome). For example, you will have to determine if Ruth can still handle the sheets on a larger boat.

There are certainly ways around that if you are concerned. My friend's Freedom has a self tending jib and a big main. Freedoms rigged like that surpass 45 feet. However, they are expensive. A 90's vintage 35 is about 80K, never mind fitting it out for cruising. A similarly rigged Hunter 32, which is a very roomy boat for its size, can be had for 40K.

Likewise, anchoring can be eased by use of a windlass, but that is another expense.

Regarding resale, from what I have observed you might have difficulty fitting out a boat and then only losing $8K on resale. I'd have to guess that you will end up losing perhaps 20K, as it can be difficult to sell a boat rapidly without taking a loss. I'd guess that most of the money you put to set the boat up for cruising would be a loss and that you can easily spend $20K on set up, especially if you start with an older boat. Just new sails for a boat over 35 feet could be 8K!

Ed's H37 is a great candidate by the way. The cutter rig is flexible and the headsails are likely smaller than a single headsail for a sloop of the same size. My friend absolutely stole one for under $20K, but they can more normally be found for $30-40K. I sailed his boat a few weeks ago The 37C is heavily built and well set up for cruising with a relatively small cockpit and walk in separate shower.

You may wish to spend more to get a well found, recently repowered, well equipped boat then roll it into a loan. I got 8% fixed for 12 years and the payments are $200 on 18K. If you are planning on a short period of time it might be a good way to get into it without a lot of cash out of pocket.

Interested in your quote above :" (I found some feeder rings on board I used to raise the genoa solo...worked awesome)". As I have to do most ( 99.9%) of the work on my boat solo I am interested in what these are and how they work. I have raised my furling main on my own - feeding it in and raising it - quite a strenous job. So anything to make work with the Genoa easier would really be appreciated.

rajhnsn · Nov 17, 2009

Priorities for the type of boat

I would have to agree that you should by the largest reputable boat that you can afford that is in the best shape you can find. There are going to be some conditions somewhere that you get caught in that a smaller boat just won't handle safely. Although I'm not retired yet so I won't be taking the long cruises for a few more years, I used this set of priorities to purchase my 35 Oday in August of 2008. My price range was the same as your's. I paid in the low 30's and put about 10K into it. It had many upgrades and newer sails. Engine was in very good condition but it needed a new bottom which I did myself.

I'm very pleased with the boat. It has handled well in the ocean in 5 to 7 foot rollers and the steep chop of the Deleware bay blowing in the 30's. I expect that the boat can handle much more.

During my search, I found that I would need to look at older 70's and 80's vintage good old boats to get the size that I wanted. There were many good deals in this price range of Peasons, Catalinas and Hunters as well as Odays. There are not many Oday 35's around. This model has a sugar scoop transom. It is the same boat as the Oday 34 without it. The sugar scoop does add convienence for boarding from a dink.

There are many issues to consider. I fully agree with those that say that you can handle a larger boat. It sounds like you are in good shape, so it is more a matter of managing the extra loads of a larger boat. I'm in my 50's and I wish that I had a windless for the anchor sometimes.

Good luck. The important thing is to do it!

Maine Sail · Nov 17, 2009

hnygren said:
1. I'm 65 in good shape and have no problem going forward on the Mac to handle the sails and such and deal with a 22 lb. Bruce and 30 foot of chain each night (but this is about my limit). Ruth is a year older and also in good shape, but her balance isn't so good, so she mans the rudder most of the time and the outboard when it is needed and she can handle the sheets in the cockpit.

My next door neighbors, Jean & Bill, sailed their IP 29 well into their 80's. We ran into them on their last summer before selling the boat 150 miles from home in a very remote anchorage. He was 85 an she was 83 at the time. Oh and they still dragged the dinghy though the low tide muck and mire right till they sold the boat. Hell Jean was up on the roof shoveling it one February when she was 82...

If a 22 pound Bruce is your max dead lift then you will need a boat with a windlass. Manual windlasses are less prone to problems but electrics are easier. One trick many use is to let the boat pull do most of the anchor weighing. Simply have your wife put it into and out of gear and steer towards the rode as you just collect it as the boat moves towards it. Once vertical, or at a 1:1 scope, simply snub the rode on a bow cleat and let the inertia of the hull rip the anchor from the bottom. Once it has pulled free all you need to do is lift it the 10-30 feet from the bottom to the bow roller. Simple, an very effective, I do this all the time, solo, and with two people it becomes even easier..

Jean & Bill always said "age is a state of mind"...

hnygren said:
If we bought a boat in the 30-35 foot range how physical is it handling the sails and anchoring? Be honest, would we be unrealistic thinking at our age (plus a couple more years added on) that we could handle a boat doing coastal sailing? Say down the west coast, Mexico, Central America and through the ditch and up the east coast? We wouldn't be crossing an ocean

Not a problem at all. We have lots of seniors sailing up here in Maine and I know and have sailed with many of them. With the right gear, and skill set, sailing a 30-35 footer can actually be easier than sailing a small and tender boat.

hnygren said:
2. Could we find a 30-35 foot boat in the $35,000-$45,000 range that would be fitted out to take the trip without throwing a lot more time and money into it? I don't have the time to work on it for a year or so. A couple months would be ok. If we would do this we need to do it pretty much in the next year or so.

Depending upon what you want or need anything can be done but this is a rare boat that will not need some, or significant, money thrown at it. You really need to set a top budget for the whole plan, maybe 50k, then reduce that amount by about 30% or more as a purchase price.

The problem with boats, for the stated use, is that when you find one in the condition you want it will likely not be equipped the way you want. Then when you find one equipped the way you want it will have been ridden hard and put away wet. Finding the boat you describe will likely be a two-percenter, less than 2% of the boats fit this mold, and you will usually pay accordingly.

hnygren said:
It wouldn't matter much to us if we started on the East Coast somewhere or the West Coast, so would one be better than the other finding a boat and/or sailing direction?

The East coast is a better bet for a novice new cruiser IMHO. With the ICW and the many protected anchorages along the East coast it is easy to sail from the Canada to the Caribbean easily and safely and you can do this in just about any production boat.

hnygren said:
3. At the end of a year if we wanted to sell the boat and were welling to take a $5000-$8000 loss on it so that we didn't have it on the market for ever would it be reasonable to think we could sell if fairly quickly? I realize this question presents a lot of variables and might tie back into which coast we bought the boat on and which coast we sold it on, but maybe not.

Let's look at it this way. You buy a mid 80's production boat that is in excellent shape but not well equipped for off shore or cruising. It needs a full electrical overhaul designed for live a aboard cruising, new standing rigging, Epirb, Liferaft, ground tackle, radar etc. etc. on and on. So you pay 30k but quickly and easily put another 15k+ into it (this is NOT a stretch). When you're done the boat will still possibly be worth 32k on a quick sale maybe 35k on a longer sale. Condition is everything and if you ride her hard and don't also maintain her in Bristol condition & you can lose even more by not keeping up with her. You will lose some but how much can be determined to some extent by how you maintain it while you own it. Mickey Mousing stuff, that is out of accepted industry practices, will also reduce re-sale so when doing upgrades be wary of that snafu too.

Sumner said:
We don't care about new and pretty, we don't want something that looks better than we do . I posted the Catalina 30 link to show that a boat with that much space inside is plenty big enough for us and we don't need anything larger. If we do this we are looking for a boat along the lines you mentioned and....

Sumner said:

Aside from the obvious issues of limited tankage, stowage is a huge concern. It is easy to walk aboard a non-crusing/live aboard equipped C-30 and think there will be enough space. The reality of cruising though is much farther from the reality of two grown adults with all the associated gear for extended cruising:

This is a SMALL list NOT inclusive of nearly enough for cruising.

Tools (can take up massive amounts of space), life raft, sails, spare rodes, spare anchor, spare parts (can take up massive amounts of space), food, clothing, charts, wet suits/dry suits, life jackets, foul weather gear, radar reflectors, ditch bag, sea anchor/drogue, comprehensive medical kit, engine fluids, oil, antifreeze, trans fluid etc., spare glasses if you wear them, epirb, personal strobes, generator/solar, course plotters & parallel rule, large battery bank, binoculars, bell, cruising guides, dividers, dishware, pots, pans etc., fire extinguishers, flashlights, SSB?, paper goods eg: toilet paper, hand bearing compass, sextant, knives, life ring/sling, safety harnesses/jack lines, flare kit/safety kit, storm sails, spare halyard, watermaker for liferaft, sheets/linens, water filtration? etc. etc. on and on and on...

Having owned a C-30 I can assure you that the storage space on them is SPARSE. They may look big but this is because they chose to maximize interior space by reducing stowage. This is not a trick only employed by Catalina but one many other production builders are also doing. Unfortunately it makes them less than ideal for cruising. Once you begin loading one for an extended cruise it will get awfully full, really fast.

Gear should always be stored with a knock down in mind and is a SAFETY issue. A tool box improperly stowed could kill you as could a spare alternator or starter flying about the cabin.

You need to make a list of what you think or know you'll be bringing then mentally try to fit this into each boat as you look at them.

What you ant to do is doable. I would just back your initial purchase price off and save room for upgrades, tweaks and repairs.

BobM · Nov 17, 2009

Separate Thread

Albanach said:
Interested in your quote above :" (I found some feeder rings on board I used to raise the genoa solo...worked awesome)". As I have to do most ( 99.9%) of the work on my boat solo I am interested in what these are and how they work. I have raised my furling main on my own - feeding it in and raising it - quite a strenous job. So anything to make work with the Genoa easier would really be appreciated.

Rather than jump this thread with a new topic I started a new one.

TheSaltyFly · Nov 17, 2009

Just do it!!!!

Sumner,
I think your ideas are great and I hope you go through with it. I just left a clients house and he just returned from a 3 month trip from the northern Chesapeake Bay to Wilmington, NC and back. He is 94 years old and will be 95 next week. He went with his son who must be in the mid sixties. His boat is a early 80's 36 footer.

Take your time to find a nice boat that is outfitted to your requirements. I would suggest something in the high 30's or low 40's foot range as the boat is not overwhelming in size and still offers a fair amount of living space.

Enjoy and keep us posted!

Sanman · Nov 18, 2009

OK, Sum... Here's my .02

I actually went and read your web page...I think that you have built what is quite possibly and most likely is the most thoroughly modified; and well thought out, I might add, Macgregor 26s's I have ever seen! I have used several of your ideas on my own boat! All of this done in such a short time, and with several Shakedown cruises on which It sounds like you both enjoyed a taste of what sailing is all about.. but don't waste your time or money on a 32,
GO SAIL YOUR BOAT.
I would take the presumed $8000 loss, and head out! What you have built is the ultimate Road Warrior Macgregor... head out to the Gulf of Mexico... There is nice wind, It is a perfect environment for your Boat, friendly natives, protected anchorages and services, assistance is never too far away. Plus you have several advantages over moving up to the 32... You can get away from the weather.... Dude. Do you want to sit in a marina in Lauderdale or up in Jax in a T/S twiddling your thumbs... Or tying down for a Hurricane? or just get tired of Pensacola with its summer squalls? If the wx goes to crap on you, or you just want a change of scenery...Just load up and head somewhere else... There are SO many good sailing lakes, and the keys, PLUS, Your boat is built for wind and road. It is unique... and you built it. It is designed to be the way YOU like it, Right? Well then, my friend,GO SAIL it...

I would look at the mast, Since you will be sailing in higher winds than on Lake Powell, See if there is a Z-spar you could retrofit to the Mac, Beef your rigging. Use a Tabernacle mast raising system, But be careful of putting too much weight up higher than the water line. Balance Vs Ballast in a small boat is the key... unless the boat is overbuilt, and you have somehow wierded out the C/G and with OEM rigging on a Mac being light to begin with, the boat won't handle right... could be solved by a guy like you... and it also seems to me this is what you like about a boat anyway...Load that puppy up and You and Ruth Hit dadgum Road... Head South East until the water gets Blue enough for you and then Stop, find a marina with a ramp, Put your boat in the water, Park and Lock your Van, Give your float plan to the marina, Buy Ice...Turn on the Sirrius and then have a beer.

Post your page and question over at the Trailer Sailors Web site... I think You'd find some interesting and lively discussion, as well as some excellent advice on sailing the Gulf of Mexico.

seanshine · Nov 18, 2009

Geez, ZH. You seem to pop up on every BB I
check out...... heh heh

cephius (Dave) · Nov 19, 2009

I agree with other posters. Bareboat charter in the BVI and find out what you are physically capable of handling.

I'm a very experienced sailor with many tropical charters. After 14 days on a 60' sloop I'm sore all over and ready to get home and relax. (Doesn't stop me from booking the next get-away

)

I like finding younger, stronger crew to help ease the load. Unfortunately the people with the time, money, and interest in a sailing vacation are almost always older than me.

micheleb · Nov 19, 2009

Hi there -- We suggest you take a Coast Guard Auxiliary basic sailing/boating course before going out on any body of water/rough seas. We are members and Staff Officers and after 5 years membership, we feel we have learned alot!!!!! Please consider it!!!!!!
Michele in Connecticut on Long Island Sound

SV Tumbleweed · Nov 20, 2009

No problem, Old sailors like us only sail smarter, not harder. I have a coastal cruiser for sale you can take a look here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG0TFVnrIhI

Fair Winds,

Bill

Sailm8 · Nov 20, 2009

I agree with dance with the one you brought to the dance. We would drag a C22 from St. Louis to the Keys 3 times a year and sail without any problems. We got smarter and found a place to store the boat in the keys to avoid the 1400 mile tow. We finally retired down here on the Gulf Coast and sail all year round.

You can always find a bigger boat, but time is short. I'm about the same age and in good physical shape so far. Three years ago I was legally blind. Couldn't drive, couldn't read, couldn't hardly see anything. Found an exceptional doctor and now my vision is 20/40. I don't want to waste it prepping for a year. I just plan to go. Not crossing oceans just sailing 20 - 30 miles at a time stopping to smell the roses. The gulf coast is a great place to coastal cruise all year long. Hurricane coming? You have a real advantage. On the trailer and out of there. I am also envious of the lake exploring you are doing. You could do that for years. In fact someone wrote a book about trailer sailing across American hopping from lake to lake. You don't need to cross oceans to be a sailor.

It can be done, check out these guys: http://www.conchcruisers.net/

Just my two cents worth

Stu Jackson · Nov 20, 2009

Two boats

When I was typing the heading of this reply, it just dawned on me. Why not the best of both worlds? Something else to consider but not to keep you up all night long!

You asked: While looking at a lot of boats on the Internet over the last few days there were two makes that interested us as there were a number of each for sale in our price range and some that seemed to be pretty good as is.

Endeavor and Irwin Citations are both good examples of early fiberglass boats that have a good following and reputation.

I did, however, notice that both are in FL. I don't remember whether it was this topic or another recently, but generally the further away from the equator you go the more expensive but perhaps in better shape you will find boats. The FL heat really does take a toll, and I give a big shout out to those folks in the hot & humid south who take what has to be the extra time required to keep their boats in tip top shape.

zeehag · Nov 20, 2009

there are many boats for sale in fla--i would never again ever sail an irwin of any kind--difficult to handle is seas--even calmish ones--much weather helm....endeavors oilcan----these are performance cruisers and will be more difficult to handle in brisk breezes--btdt--gooood luck---the nassau and the southern cross are good examples of heavy cruiser that would be good for handling short handed......have fun with the boat search....

We Have Three Main Questions with..........

.

Attachments

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

micheleb

.

.

.

.