We Have Three Main Questions with..........

jorgefife · Nov 15, 2009

the 3 questions

Having read about the gentleman and his wife, and all other comments, I suggest they look in the Houston area for an ideal boat for the size they want
I am not at all experienced, recently bought a H33, 1982 and have been working on it for 5 months; but with the help of someone in the same Marina, and the answers on this web site, I am making progress
I for once enormously enjoy the comments of Stu Jackson, Ed Schenck to name just a few, and I see other people question their opinions with rather insensitive comments:no need to score points if not in agreement, this is not the place to do it; I think we all have an opinion; and so much wisdom here, how come a 17 year old boy can cross the world alone?
I wouldn't be surprised if these 2 people surprise all of us, they seem to be determined
I take this opportunity to thank all for your comments, just didn't like the tone of some of you, which sincerely is not called for.
Nice words go a long way, that was the thought of the day.
By next week I will have my mast up, if it doesn't fall overboard or on top of my neighbour's boat (he is not the one with the same Hunter)

dserrell · Nov 15, 2009

Sounds like you've both done very well on your own! You can find a good used sailboat for $35,000 to $45,000 and wouldn't necessarily have to accept a $5,000 to $8,000 loss when you eventually sell it. The higher the quality of sailboat you initially purchase the less likely you are to lose money when you sell it. The right 30' to 32' sailboat would serve your needs well. I'm very partial to Island Packets for crusing because of their high quality and crusing features! Just looking at what's available in an Island Packet I was able to find the following:

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1986/Island-Packet-Cutter-1960564/Cape-Cod/MA/United-States

Of course this is only one example, but the the sailboat isn't in Utah, it's in Massachusetts. The asking price is just that! Probably would sell for less! If you haven't looked at, or been on an Island Packet it may be worth your time and effort to find one to go see. Purchasing a very high quality sailboat and maintaining it will definitely benefit it's resale value, at the same time you'd really enjoy owning one of the finest crusing sailboats in the world. That's my 2 cents! Have fun! Good luck!

David

David in Sandusky · Nov 16, 2009

Bigger is not safer

More correctly, length is about last on the list of factors that make your boat safer.

You, your training, procedures, and contingency plans are most important.

Then I would put the design and implementation of key systems, including the hull, rigging, safety, propulsion, navigation, and stowage systems in the next rank.

The comfort and speed of your design are also real safety factors.

I doubt that there is a safer boat than a 30 foot Island Packet, or similar designs.

But you are not going to cross oceans, so I think you have a broad list of workable designs.

I think size of the boat has a lot more to do with your preferences for living aboard for an extended period than it does with safety. And as I said in my earlier post, size has real prices in ease of handling, complexity, and cost.

I also think that much of the preference for larger boats comes from hundreds of boat sales people looking for higher revenue per customer over the past 30 years.

Nodak7 · Nov 16, 2009

Sum,

I am 62 and my wife and I purchased a Mac 26X to see if we would enjoy sailing! We loved it and then decided that we wanted a boat that was easier to "single hand". We purchased a 33' Hunter and sail her on Lake Sakakawea, ND. We do about the same thing that you are doing and are totally happy with our decision. After our first full season with her we are tickled. The Mac was not comparable and I can assure you that you should get a larger boat to fulfil your dreams. We also have dreams of doing some cruising as well and have asked ourselves the same questions you have posed in your post!

Our thoughts have been to put her in the Great Lakes and Sail the east coast. I want to wish you luck and we may meet down there in the near future.....

EmmaC · Nov 16, 2009

Boats for Cruising in Blue Water

We have a 1978 Hunter 33 which we have put $30,000+ into and it is very stable, in great shape and we sail it off shore all the time, but we love the keel under 5' for cruising Biscayne Bay and the Keys. It is also necessary for the Bahamas. I think a boat like this would work great for you. I am 55 and owned the boat before we were married 4 years ago, he married me because my boat was bigger than his

. Except for docking (and I could do that as well if I absolutely have to) I can single hand her. An autopilot is a big help for that and having one that ties into our chart plotter has made all the difference. Chcek Craig's list, there are some great bargains there.

I would look for a boat in Florida and then either go north in the spring or south in the winter. A trip around the edge of the Gulf can be fun as well. We have done the Bahamas and Cuba and down to the Virgins (we were originally in Key West) and our water tank lasts us a week with short showers each night. We do carry bottled water for drinking. A good cold plate makes life nice. We do not have solar panels or a wind generator or a generator and we never have a problem with power - we run the engine into and out of harbors here because the water is shallow, narrow, and many ports do not like you sailing in. That seems to be enough to keep our batteries up for 24 hours. WE do not have a tv that runs on battery, just instruments, cold plate, water pump, and engine starting - oh don't forget the tunes!

Good luck.

smittyssi · Nov 16, 2009

I don't really have any advice other than to say we did it. Of course, everyone's health, strength, wants and needs are different.

I am 74, my wife is 63. We bought a 37' Hunter Cherubini cutter equipped with a generator and radar for $35K. We made no major changes to the boat. This is our sixth sailboat. We cruise the Gulf of Mexico and do wish we had a windlass. However, I have used the sail winches to haul the hook. We do not plan to sell the vessel since we live on the water and dock the boat at our dock behind our home near New Orleans between cruises.

Absolutely · Nov 16, 2009

Well this may be a little different so here goes. I am currently 65. I own and sail a Catalina 36 MK II tall rig with a wing keel. What I know is this. 40 years ago I sailed a Venture 23 to the Bahamas. Saw all the work, waves, lack of sleep. Sailed a 27 ft Bucaneer from Galveston to Mexico. Saw waves, wind, lack of sleep. Sailed back mostly in the ICW. Saw wind, no waves, anchored and got plenty of sleep. So at this point in my life, and I am in good shape, the "need rest" factor seems to be more important that some of the others. A mid sized boat is actually easier to handle. I think you'll have a great time near the shore or inside the ICW. The problems develope when you have gone with out sleep and the weather is bad. Stress takes over and it will be generally the hardest part. Today, if you can afford them, the GPS, radar, chart plotters, and sat tele take a lot of the stress off. In the old days, you used a Ray Jefferson auto directional finder and generally calculated where you are and where you are going. Today, with a lap top, you can see the bend in the ICW and plan on pulling off in a hole to spend the night. You can call ahead to Marina's for directions on where to park. All this ads up to an easier time. Just take is slow and don't bite off too much as you go. If you get plenty of rest, you can go around the world till you stop. Age is there, just respect it and find the easiest way for you both to enjoy the ride. Good luck and have a sailing life.
Gene Long
Absolutely

zeehag · Nov 16, 2009

i just came back from a few months sailing with a 70 yr old man--i am over 60-there is nothing wrong wioth "older" people in bigger boats---we sailed in his 37 foot seidelmann--was easy and fun--2 people of any age can handle a boat from 36-41 ft with minimal difficulty--mine is 41 ft and i will sail her solo if i have to--has wide flat decks, not on an angle and is easy to traverse----no reasonnot to be able to handle her--has an hydraulic autopilot built onto her quadrant---people can do anything they WANT to do --is just their brain builds [parameters within which many people feel the need to remain-----you donot need those parameters----we overcome our weaknesses and grow from them and survive in life and living---sailing is living----go for whatever you want--but make sure the boat you get is a sturdy one and up to your desires as far as cruising is concerned----if you wish to cruise bluewater and offshore--make sure the boat has a strong hull and rig and plenty of water and fuel tankage----so you donot need to buy in strange places if you so wish-----opening ports are a big aid in warm waters--the cross breeze is needed --sometimes wind and current oppose and air still needs to enter boat for comfort......goood luck have fun.......

jwandling · Nov 16, 2009

A lot depends on the type of boat and how it is equipped. I am 67 and have often single-handed my former boat (J27) and my current boat (Capri 22). I think your budget will control more than your age.
If I were you, I would look at a well-equipped J30. You could probably get a nice one for around 22K. Then, I would spend another 5 to 10K or so on the following: Jib roller-furling, assymetrical "cruising" spinnaker, and dutchman or lazy jacks for main, plus whatever interior amenities might be lacking in what is otherwise a racing boat. (Cushions, galley, etc.)
Here's my logic: Fractional rig sails very well without the jib if necessary. Either way, very good sailing characteristics minimize time in passage as well as time under power. Boat is about the smallest that has standing headroom, still looks decent, and sails well. These are very tough boats and easy to sail. See J30 website...one of these survived the famous Fastnet storm while being single-handed to Europe. In moderate to heavy breezes, these boats can remind you why you love sailing, in really heavy stuff, you can fore-reach with a small jib (so long as you have leeway), and be quite comfortable. Probably would not heave-to as well as a heavier boat, but should be fast enough to get out of the way of many problems. Conventional spinnaker is probably too much for a couple, but assymetrical would be easy to handle and let you keep salling. My J27 would reach along at 5.5 knots in a 5 knot breeze. I'd recommend the J27 except for lack of headroom and capacity to carry a lot of cruising stuff.
Good luck.

zeehag · Nov 16, 2009

27 ft is quite small for two going cruising over long periods of time--37 is maybe ok if the layout is good---must be considered--how well and for how long do you get along well in small spaces.........

John · Nov 16, 2009

Then there is the other side of the question.

There is absolutely NO reason that most Americans in their 60s cannot do what most Americans in the 40s (and even younger) can do. The only thing is, we need to exercise more - something aerobic, strength excercise and stretching. Swimming and yoga are both great for this, and the latter can easily be done on a boat.

Of course, the exception is somebody who has had some serious health problem, but aside from that, even if a person in their 60s has let their health deteriorate, they can get a lot of it back.

Prof Druhot · Nov 16, 2009

I agree with David.You, your sailing experience, and the seaworthiness are the key points. I have to agree with Zeehag as well, if you are active and try to excercise and stay in good health, you can sail easily in to your 70's and beyond. It keeps the mind active if you think about all that there is to be concerned about while sailing a vessel.

mcfastrack · Nov 16, 2009

Bigger and Faster Creates Comfort

At age 68 I still single-hand my Macgregor 70. Sailing as a couple offshore is constant series of singlehanded experiences - until you are in a situation which requires you both to engage simultaneously - be it on deck or below.

There are two basic schools about offshore sailing - use a heavy or moderate displacement boat and plug along letting weather systems overtake you. The longer you are at sea the more you expose yourself to the weather. The more swells and waves you experience the greater the discomfort especially when the wind gets constantly above 20-30 knots.

In your current boat you can just crank up the outboard and at 25 knots boat speed jump back into a secure anchorage or a safe marina - or put the boat on the trailer.

For me the biggest and fastest boat I can safely handle with a good ram-driven autopilot, and that I can afford to buy and maintain is the way to go. Anything under 40' woouldn't interest me.

Before making a decision:

1. Try some heavy weather sailing in your current boat ("heavy weather" is relative to the boat and crew).
2. Trailer your boat to some other locations and sail her there. Pacific Northwest, Sea of Cortez, one of the Great Lakes or do the part of the Great Loop.
3. Go to http://www,setsail.com and click on Dashew Offshore. The Dashews have sailed hundreds of thousands of offshore miles and know what they're talking about. At Dashew Offshore scroll to the bottome of their menu to get into their sail boat material. On the site you will find some excellent reference books and DVD's on offshore boat design, offshore sailing, weather, surviving storms etc.
4. Seriously assess your physical capacity and endurance. Sailing 24/7 can be taxing.
5. Crew with someone on an offshore passage. Boats in races often are looking for crewmembers for the delivery trip. Races that end in Hawaii are a good bet. The Victoria BC (Canada) to Maui is one possibility http://www.vicmaui.org/ The LA to Oahu Transpac is another http://www.transpacificyc.org/ Another possibility is the San Fransisco to Oahu http://www.pacificcup.org/ The major advantages are that if you can arrange to be part of the delivery crew you will be joining a crew that has offshore experience and the boats are typically well found and prepared since they have had to pass a safety insppection prior to the race. This should be a safer way to start into offshore sailing than just buying a boat and setting off on your own. It is also a much less expensive way for both of you to find out whether you even like being offshore - A HUGE CONSIDERATION.

Good luck with your decision.

martin 1918 · Nov 16, 2009

Sir,

Off shore cruising is very rewarding experience for any sailor. A boat properly rigged can easy be single handled off shore. With some research the knowledge of what will work for you will be easy to come by. I would recommend coastal cruising Southern California as the area that would best suit the amount of experience you have. A real keel boat is the safest way. Something from 30-40'feet would be the ticket. As for your age I would not let that get in the way as long as you feel great and are willing to put in some time on the proper rigging setup-age is not a factor. Winching can be! There is a new cordless electric winch handle about to be introduced at the 2010 Miami Strictly Sail show. WinchRite is the name of the unit and the weight will be around 6.5lb which is more than 5lbs lighter than the drill that is being used. Good luck with your search for exciting new sailing destinations. Remember safety first and get a personal location device. PLB'S are now the best way to achieve a safety net when coastal cruising. SPOT is the one I use and is worth checking into. I saw the WnchRite at www.Sailology.com

Dave Barber · Nov 16, 2009

I just turned 70 and am not having any problems sailing my Hunter 38. I'm planning an extended cruise to the Bahamas this spring. Some of the things that help include in-mast furling, electric anchor windlass, and auto-pilot. All my lines lead back to the cockpit. The biggest problem we have is boarding, particularly in marinas with floating docks. I have to carry a small step ladder and it can be tippy at times.

I think the most important things about cruising, particularly at our age is safety equipment. My wife and I always wear our SOSpenders and hook up to our lifelines when underway, even in good weather. I would also recommend a lot of person overboard drills. Recovering someone offshore is not easy.

JVB · Nov 16, 2009

Try a Virgin

Islands charter both for the experience and to see the kinds of boat the charterers use.

Windrifter · Nov 16, 2009

Fellow senior sailor, north Idaho,
Since I don't know your email address I'll put my coments here. I wish I knew that you were in north Idaho is summer. I live on the eastside of lake Coeur d' Alene. I have a 1979 Venture Newport 23, (cutter rig). I will be 64 next month and my blue water boat even if I never get it is a Gulf 32 pilot house. The thing I like about it is you have two pilot stations, (one outside for when it is warm and sunny, and one inside when it is not). In the northwest we get alot of good sailing weather during the cool and cold months that I hate to see go to waste, plus you don't have to put up with all those power boaters during that time of year. You have the whole lake to yourself. Take care,
The Windrifter,
Captain Mitch

Ozzie · Nov 16, 2009

Hi Sum and Ruth: Concerning your question(s) and there are many, here are a few thoughts relating to going offshore since There's offshore (a few miles from the coast) and then...there is offshore (the ocean crossing variety.)
1) If you are interested in doing the former, then I believe your age might not be an issue provided that health is not an issue and:
a) The rigging of your chosen vessel is manageable, that is to say relatively small sails, in a simple configuration e.g. a sloop with all lines leading aft to the cockpit or, catboat/wishbone configuration where lines are typically lead aft as it comes from the manufacturer.
b) The vessel you chose is on the heavier side with a sea kindly motion particularly in a seaway.
c) The vessel has been pronounced or rated as at least offshore capable by someone other than the manufacturer or dealer/broker (such as an independent designer, or rating organization) and is already equipped to go offshore with the minimally necessary instruments and devices so required.
2) If you are interested in doing the latter , I recommend you postpone your plans for a little while until,
a) You have done a lot more sailing in tidal rivers and sea costal areas where you are likely to encounter quickly changing sea states and weather conditions, thus building experience and self confidence dealing with adverse conditions, and
b) Have done a lot of reading about the pros, cons and otherwise pleasures, challenges and issues relating offshore sailing.
3) With respect to what vessel to chose and at what price, the matter gets a lot more challenging and, as you add additional constraints to your selection, such as size, configuration, vintage, readiness for offshore sailing, general condition and any other relevant buying decision .In that context, I suggest:
a) You check out (and talk to the good folks at) www.goodoldboat.com and look over the November/December 09 issue which addresses some of the items listed above, and
b) Have a chat with the someone at Robert H. Perry Yacht Designers team at 360-652-7771 or, rhp-bob@alpha2.com
4) All other things considered, and above recommendations being heartfelt and borne of very limited experience sailing offshore, here are my punch lines on the subject:
a) Simple, heavier (even if slower) and smaller given the size of your crew is better at any price, any time, and
b) Getting on the briny and actually doing the sailing once you are comfortable with your and your mate’s ability to handle situations is the best thing to do.

I’ll be happy to chat with you about this matter if you are interested; please correspond with me at ozziepedrera@yahoo.com and let us set up a time to talk.
Best regards,

Ozzie

BobM · Nov 16, 2009

Not a lot of info yet on the Winchrite

They have almost nothing online at the moment. You can't even buy it online and they don't have a price listed. I'll wait for Mainesail's review.

I looked into buying one of the saw based units, but you really need 24V to do the job if you want the added benefit of being able to winch someone up the mast with it. Were I going cruising, I'd certainly want the ability to do that, especially if my Wife were the only crew.

For normal winching I'd think that it is unnecessary to have one on a 30-40 footer.