We Have Three Main Questions with..........

[Sumner]

........ some smaller ones thrown in.

First, Ruth and I bought a MacGregor 26S last January with no previous sailing experience and with not much of an option for getting experience except for reading and fumbling our way through it.

We spent quite a bit of time setting the boat up for cruising.....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/macgregor-index.html

and have managed to get out with it and take some really nice trips........

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor-trips-1/macgregor-trips-1-index.html

We have been posting on the Mac Forum, but we felt these questions would be best answered here. We love the Mac and don't have any plans of selling her. It is the perfect boat for us living in the middle of the desert in SE Utah since we have to trailer a ways to find water. It also has let us see places and have the flexibility to go places we couldn't with a larger sailboat. Now saying that we have thought about an even longer extended trip than what we have done with the Mac, so.............

1. I'm 65 in good shape and have no problem going forward on the Mac to handle the sails and such and deal with a 22 lb. Bruce and 30 foot of chain each night (but this is about my limit). Ruth is a year older and also in good shape, but her balance isn't so good, so she mans the rudder most of the time and the outboard when it is needed and she can handle the sheets in the cockpit.

If we bought a boat in the 30-35 foot range how physical is it handling the sails and anchoring? Be honest, would we be unrealistic thinking at our age (plus a couple more years added on) that we could handle a boat doing coastal sailing? Say down the west coast, Mexico, Central America and through the ditch and up the east coast? We wouldn't be crossing an ocean.

2. Could we find a 30-35 foot boat in the $35,000-$45,000 range that would be fitted out to take the trip without throwing a lot more time and money into it? I don't have the time to work on it for a year or so. A couple months would be ok. If we would do this we need to do it pretty much in the next year or so.

It wouldn't matter much to us if we started on the East Coast somewhere or the West Coast, so would one be better than the other finding a boat and/or sailing direction?

3. At the end of a year if we wanted to sell the boat and were welling to take a $5000-$8000 loss on it so that we didn't have it on the market for ever would it be reasonable to think we could sell if fairly quickly? I realize this question presents a lot of variables and might tie back into which coast we bought the boat on and which coast we sold it on, but maybe not.

Well that's it. We would like to hear any and all opinions on this and ....

Thanks,

Sum and Ruth


Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT -- Kootenay Lake, Canada -- Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

 

[Ed Schenck]

Sum and Ruth, you are just kids! I am older and still single-hand my H37C. So the age and boat length/displacement should not limit a couple in good health.

For the kind of cruising that you want to do I would recommend a purchase on the Gulf coast if you want to start in the south. If your timing is such you might start in the Great Lakes and take advantage of a fresh water boat to start. The major difference from the west coast would be the endless chances to be inside when the weather is bad. There is so much to see and do with the Great Lakes, the Erie Canal, the Hudson and then either north to all that great NE sailing and/or south to amazing bays like the Chesapeake. You could spend two years exploring the east coast.

As for a boat in that price range and around 36' just search YachtWorld.com with your parameters.

P.S. Just for jollies I did an "Advanced Search" of 34 to 36, 1988 to 1992, Great Lakes, $40K to $60K, and got nine results. Here is one favorite of mine: http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1990/Hunter-35.5-Legend-2145247/Western/MI/United-States .

 

[Calif. Ted]

My answer to all three is YES ! (probably) many will disagree but I think it can be done with:
1. Newer boat so it has all the stuff I'm about to suggest.
2. All lines lead to the cockpit, reduces that going on deck stuff
3. 2 speed self tailing winches
4. A wheel with engine controls on the pedestal
5. A swim step & walk thru stern for getting in & out of the dink
6. Anchor windlass
I'm sure many will now tell you that you need a full keel with tiller, at least 20 years old and that sails like a brick.

 

[BobM]

The right boat

This can certainly be done, but having just moved up from a 25 to a 30 at 42 years of age, it is a measurable increase in work all around.

Everything is bigger and there is a learning curve for working smarter not harder. Things you used to bare hand (pulling the jib sheet in) or do no problem solo (raising / removing a sail) will give you trouble until you figure out how to do them better (I found some feeder rings on board I used to raise the genoa solo...worked awesome). For example, you will have to determine if Ruth can still handle the sheets on a larger boat.

There are certainly ways around that if you are concerned. My friend's Freedom has a self tending jib and a big main. Freedoms rigged like that surpass 45 feet. However, they are expensive. A 90's vintage 35 is about 80K, never mind fitting it out for cruising. A similarly rigged Hunter 32, which is a very roomy boat for its size, can be had for 40K.

Likewise, anchoring can be eased by use of a windlass, but that is another expense.

Regarding resale, from what I have observed you might have difficulty fitting out a boat and then only losing $8K on resale. I'd have to guess that you will end up losing perhaps 20K, as it can be difficult to sell a boat rapidly without taking a loss. I'd guess that most of the money you put to set the boat up for cruising would be a loss and that you can easily spend $20K on set up, especially if you start with an older boat. Just new sails for a boat over 35 feet could be 8K!

Ed's H37 is a great candidate by the way. The cutter rig is flexible and the headsails are likely smaller than a single headsail for a sloop of the same size. My friend absolutely stole one for under $20K, but they can more normally be found for $30-40K. I sailed his boat a few weeks ago The 37C is heavily built and well set up for cruising with a relatively small cockpit and walk in separate shower.

You may wish to spend more to get a well found, recently repowered, well equipped boat then roll it into a loan. I got 8% fixed for 12 years and the payments are $200 on 18K. If you are planning on a short period of time it might be a good way to get into it without a lot of cash out of pocket.

 

[sailingdog]

While it can be done, I'd point out that the boat should be sized so that anything that needs to be done on the boat can be done by either person on the boat. Sailing and cruising long-distances means you're often effectively singlehanding the boat at different times.

One thing that might help is going with a multihull... at least with the balance issues. Some of the older multihulls, like the Prout Snowgoose, Catalac 8/9/10m, or the Iroquois would be suitable for your voyage and in your price range.

 

[zeehag]

it can be done, yes----sail with friends who have same you seek and also try chartering same size boat to see if you are happy with it first..LOL..donot need to find out you arent into it after the fact----

 

[Stu Jackson]

Yes to all

and the input is good.

One thing NOT mentioned that is absolutely necessary is a reliable and bulletproof electrical system if you're gonna spend all your time on the boat.

There are many different ways to do that, and much depends on how you plan to use your boat. Given your pictures, you seem to like being OUT THERE so self-sufficiency is the key to your success.

Two methods you'll find you need to employ:

1. A very large solar array. Our friends just sailed from Vancouver BC down to Mexico. Here's their report so far: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5270.0.html SOLAR, SOLAR, SOLAR

2. Simple bulletproof electrical switching and power system. Keep the simple 1-2-B switch, avoid complexity, KISS. Our above mentioned friend Steve did it with only solar and didn't even install his newer high output alternator and regulator. A good thread that includes an explanation of switching is one from this board's C310 Forum just yesterday, please read both pages. Most boats, unless the PO knew something about his electrical system will come factory wired and need to be up-graded to get the alternator output off the 1-2-B switch and to the house bank. http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=104505

We had a C25 for 12 years, moved up to a C34 12 years ago, I singlehand it. Only "work" is the danged main sail cover! But we spent a few years putting in a good electrical system, all of which could have been done in a month of effort working 2 hours a day. That's because 12 years ago there weren't these forums with the "how to do it right" stuff and we all had to figure it out ourselves. You shouldn't have that problem.

 

[zeehag]

sometimes a large solar array is redundant--use wind as backup and nite charging and have more deck space available for people......

 

[Stu Jackson]

Our friends installed their solar panels above their bimini. Downside of wind generators is the noise.

 

[zeehag]

Our friends installed their solar panels above their bimini. Downside of wind generators is the noise.

the proper noise for a wind genny is a whooshing sound--if is air-X, the bearings may bbe bad--a friend had one--sent it back for new ones under warrantwee---was beautriful when returned---just whooshing sound---the sound of beautifully generating energy--beats briggs and stratton LOL

 

[Sumner]

.........One thing NOT mentioned that is absolutely necessary is a reliable and bulletproof electrical system if you're gonna spend all your time on the boat.

There are many different ways to do that, and much depends on how you plan to use your boat. Given your pictures, you seem to like being OUT THERE so self-sufficiency is the key to your success...........

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/outside-13.html

We would be using more electricity than we do now, but I could move the solar panel (and we are getting one more) along with the 12 volt generator I made to the boat and hopefully it might already have some solar on it. Thanks for the links. The one from your friend is really helpful.

We don't need a lot of creature comforts as we live pretty simple at home and on the water. Our last 18 day trip on the Mac which is way smaller than what we are looking for was very enjoyable and we lived on it for a month on our Idaho/Canada trip with no problem. So a 30-35 foot boat would seem like a palace to us. We would just like something that would afford more safety at sea and would alow us to do a trip like this with a little more comfort and security.

We really appreciate everyone's input and hope we get a lot more. Ed the idea of a fresh water boat and the trip from there out has a lot of appeal. Great suggestion. An older boat that has been used for cruising and is already fitted out for that and has recently been upgraded in the sail and rigging department would be ideal for us.

As you can see if you looked at our trips, we are kind of loaners and do like to be out there doing something that is adventursome and new for us. We believe in the "Never to old to see and learn new things" deal. We want to go places we can anchor out and not use slips. Nothing wrong with them it just isn't us. In almost 2 months of nights on our little 26 footer since we got her last Jan. we have never been in one.

I've spent quite a bit of time looking at the boats that John Vigor recommends in his book "Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere", but most are pretty old and the ones I find would need work or new sails, etc. and/or are very desirable and expensive. Like I said we don't want to cross the pacific, but still from Panama on up to Canada can be challanging I'm sure at times along with the Atlantic, so the need for something we would feel safe in. We are both retired, so we could sit things out if we had advanced warning, but you never can count on that. On our 18 day Lake Powell trip we were caught in over 50 mph winds and I came home with a small fracture in my shoulder, screwed up rotator cuff and torn ligament, so we know stuff can happen.

This boat.....

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/14806

........... is an example of a boat that is plenty large enough for us space wise, but is it ok for the type of blue water sailing we would experience on a trip for say New York on around to Vancouver/Seattle? I like the shallower draft.

Thanks again and we are learning from this,

Sum and Ruth

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

 

[zeehag]

is a catalina. if you want to sail one in blue water is your decision--i would npt go there. the best way to take a catalina thru the canal is by trailor across country and relaunch in west coast.....sail it in sea of cortez, sail down the cali coast---donot try to do the baja bash in it--would be most incredibly wet trip...and uncomfortable. you might consider a heavier boat----like the one you showed in the what kind of boat is this thread..is perfect for the job you are proposing......even a heavier duty performance cruiser would work--but catalina?? is good for lost angeles to catalina--but i would not try to take out in deep blue water.....a cal is a better boat for that..but i still would have qualms.....to get thru canal and to vancouver from new york is to do a baja bash-----gooooodluck......

 

[Stu Jackson]

Baja Dash

There is a little known secret called the Baja Dash, which avoids the Baja Bash. You just pull into an anchorage very night. Check out Cruising World's archives, 2004 article I believe. George Benson also sailed a Cal 27 up the coast from SF to Vancouver. Harbor hops all the way. http://www.georgebenson.us/ Read the Cruise Narratives. It CAN be done in a Catalina and no one has to go far off shore to make the trip. The Baja BBBBash is for people on schedules: A very stupid way to go sailing.

You may also appreciate this, although it was downwind sailing: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5324.0.html

 

[Stu Jackson]

Boat Selection

With a larger boat come larger and more complex systems. Pressure water and heat exchangers for showers and diesel engines. While you may be going simple now, as the boat grows so go the systems. If you are living aboard you will have them and find you simply need them. Sunshowers can can tiresome quickly if you're living aboard and not just camping out. I recommend the largest boat you can possibly afford, the C30 will get very small very quickly.

Sleeping? What you do half of the time on the boat! Make sure whatever you buy has comfortable berths. The C34 and C36 are very similar if not almost identical boats and we all love them both, but the C34 has a huge V berth, lotsa people like the saloon better in a C36.

Your boat, your choice.

 

[zeehag]

There is a little known secret called the Baja Dash, which avoids the Baja Bash. You just pull into an anchorage very night. Check out Cruising World's archives, 2004 article I believe. George Benson also sailed a Cal 27 up the coast from SF to Vancouver. Harbor hops all the way. It CAN be done in a Catalina and no one has to go far off shore to make the trip. The Baja BBBBash is for people on schedules: A very stupid way to go sailing.

living on the west coast i know of the bash --the dash is an imaginary delusion made for those who do not realize the uphill cruising is a nasty event and has no escape---dash/bash--like chargers being called bolts/dolts. if you believe that of which you speak--- by all means--GO FOR IT-- but do not try to talk others into the uncomfortable and nasty trip believing that harbor hopping is a way to avoid the up hill run which even in short doses is considered a BASH.
there is nothing little known about that. is common and not given the name "dash" until you decided to do so. i have lived in san diego and lost angeles for many years/decades--since 1990 on a boat and cruising......i have done short and long uphill runs----is not for the faint of will or heart---is a nasty and rude way to sail under any and all conditions. if you believe a catalina 30 is a comfortable boat for someone to perform this rude task, then try it yourself in one. is not a fun trip and will discourage many from further cruising--i have watched and seen and done-------goooooodluck----is very wet very bumpy and very uncomfortable in most any performance oriented sailing boat....btdt...

por lo puesto--i use sunshowers regularly in my formosa 41--is a perfectly acceptable way to shower and warm water......i have done so for many years--is not tiresome nor a pita.....

 

[Stu Jackson]

Too bad

Wish I could post the article. Sorry you disagree.

 

[zeehag]

stu--have you ever sailed north on the west coast?? how many times and in what kind of boat?? i have made the sail many times in different kinds of boats--is not a fun nor comfortable trip. there is a big difference between reading articles and quoting them to others and actual doing of the deed-----i have done the deed...theere is nothing comfortable in the BASH from port to port in the northerly bound trip from baja to northern destinations. do the run yourself then comment--please.....my comments are based on reality not on quotes from articles. there are certain facts involved in the northward trek of sailboats that are very important to remember----the first being the run northward is WET is BUMPY is UNCOMFORTABLE and is NOT easy under any circumstances. please post your own trip report on the run you have done.......

 

[Rick D]

One Way To Do This....

....is to fly down to Puerto Vallarta and look around at boats of your size range for sale. Same in Florida. Many of these are retired cruisers that have all the cruising stuff already installed, most of which adds nothing, even detracts in the US from the resale value. I saw some real buys last time I was there. You can cruise around and still be near good supplies and medical care and near major airports.

 

[Joe]

You guys need to think about comfort and seaworthiness.. Not new and pretty. Look for an older boat in great condition, with a good reputation for passagemaking and an especially strong owners network. Right off the the bat I'm thinking "Island Packet" Although most are way out of your price range... you can get into an older IP31 for under 50k. Here are two I picked out for you. Full keel with retractable centerboard models allow fairly shallow draft. Very, very comforatable and dry.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1986/Island-Packet-Cutter-1960564/Cape-Cod/MA/United-States

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1986/Island-Packet--2081176/Groton/CT/United-States

 

[David in Sandusky]

Smaller, Older, Simpler, Great Condition

A lot of this depends on the creature comforts you and your wife need to enjoy your time on the boat. For Joanne and me, our '77 h27 is all we need for 8 weeks of cruising the marinas and anchorages of the Great Lakes. Spend some time looking at different used boats to decide what the two of you really need/want.

Smaller (30 feet for instance) is better because the loads on lines are much less (half?) than on a 37 footer. 5 tons is a lot easier to move in the dock than 10 tons!

Older is better because 70's boats (like the Hunters designed by Cherubini from our h27 to Ed's h37c) are solidly built, and have overhangs that make for comfort underway. They are basically all in your price range.

Simpler is better because simpler systems are more likely to work, and much easier/cheaper to repair. Example: there are no electric pumps on our boat. And I have repaired or replaced two of them with no need of professional help.

Great Condition. Pay extra bucks for a boat in really great condition. Make it clear to the seller that if the surveyor comes back with a reasonably long list of issues, the deal is off. You might pay $5,000 to $10,000 for a boat in really good condition, but it will be worth $20,000+!

This is easy to do for your budget. Do consider buying on the Gulf Coast, or up here in the Great Lakes. Sailing down to the big ditch, then into the Carribbean is a long way, while the Gulf/Caribbean/East Coast/Great Lakes would only call for occasional all night sails.

Good luck - your dream is doable, and a great one!