For those who continue to insist a compass is essential read this. http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/hawaii-canoes-voyage-showcases-ancient-navigation-23820165 
We don't need no stinkin' compass!
- Thread starter 25yearslater
- Start date
David Lewis, it was I believe, wrote an extremely entertaining and important book called Emergency Navigation. Could be David Burch (http://www.amazon.com/Emergency-Nav...00799404&sr=1-1&keywords=emergency+navigation) although the covers are different.
In any event, the Polynesians used the stars to steer by.
Most, if not all, navigation books suggest that one uses as many "tools" as available. Since the compass hadn't been invented yet, the early Polynesians of course couldn't use one!
And when it's foggy or cloudy, and my GPS dies, or I have to even use my old backup GPS which doesn't have the charts, my paper charts and compass sure come in handy.
Perhaps you posted in jest about the compass, but for newbies, it's important that they have one. Just in case...
In any event, the Polynesians used the stars to steer by.
Most, if not all, navigation books suggest that one uses as many "tools" as available. Since the compass hadn't been invented yet, the early Polynesians of course couldn't use one!
And when it's foggy or cloudy, and my GPS dies, or I have to even use my old backup GPS which doesn't have the charts, my paper charts and compass sure come in handy.
Perhaps you posted in jest about the compass, but for newbies, it's important that they have one. Just in case...
I agree Stu. It was in jest of course. I find it amazing they were capable of sailing thousands of miles and hitting what is little more than a pin point on a chart. Boy to be that capable has me green with envy.
Some food for thought
Most islands that are far offshore, will be visible for an unbelvable number of miles. The wind currents rise when they hit land, and most, but not all, of the time, there will be a large cloud over said island. Of course, if it is a cloudy day, then that all goes out the window.
Most islands that are far offshore, will be visible for an unbelvable number of miles. The wind currents rise when they hit land, and most, but not all, of the time, there will be a large cloud over said island. Of course, if it is a cloudy day, then that all goes out the window.
You'll be able to see the island a long ways out, but not 2000 miles out. That's a pretty impressive feat.
For those of you that find yourself WITHOUT a compass, in a pinch you can use your watch. An old survival trick; lay the watch flat pointing the hour hand at the sun. Halfway between the hour hand and twelve on the dial, that is south in the northern hemisphere. This actually works very well, and is quite accurate. I've heard within 6 degrees. I've done this many countless times to get a good idea of south, (and north of course), at just a glance..
David Lewis wrote a book called "We, the Navigators" about the Polynesian systems of star navigation. Quite detailed
Chris- first, you have to have a watch- I quit wearing one when I retired. Second- hands??? Most these days just have numbers
Chris- first, you have to have a watch- I quit wearing one when I retired. Second- hands??? Most these days just have numbers
I know someone who wished they had a compass. This is on the Chesapeake Bay where we are always within sight of land. She was overtaken by fog in her power boat at the mouth of the river where her marina is located. She found a buoy marking the mouth of the river, made her best guess on which way lead home and started slowly motoring in that direction. She was encouraged when she came to what she thought was the next buoy, only to realize she'd motored in a big circle and was back at the first buoy! Fortunately another boat came by and she was able to follow them in. She invested in a compass soon after that.
Twentyfive,
The only other suggestion I can respond with, is the old school of thought & I quote, "The PRUDENT navigator shall not solely rely on ONLY one form of navigation, but ALL forms at his disposal".
Too much dependence on electronic devices, subjected to breakdowns, weather, atmospheric disturbance etc., my compass WILL NEVER steer me wrong. Hey, if you look at past history, the founders of our world didn't have electronic devices. BUT, their compasses never lied, or went offline & they found the NEW continent. I've had my electronics go offline but, my compass ALWAYS got me CLOSE to my destination.
Addendum,
Why would you think an electronic device is better than a mechanical device not having to rely on battery power if/when failing? Would it be far better than one(a compass) that will NEVER fail?
CR
The only other suggestion I can respond with, is the old school of thought & I quote, "The PRUDENT navigator shall not solely rely on ONLY one form of navigation, but ALL forms at his disposal".
Too much dependence on electronic devices, subjected to breakdowns, weather, atmospheric disturbance etc., my compass WILL NEVER steer me wrong. Hey, if you look at past history, the founders of our world didn't have electronic devices. BUT, their compasses never lied, or went offline & they found the NEW continent. I've had my electronics go offline but, my compass ALWAYS got me CLOSE to my destination.
Addendum,
Why would you think an electronic device is better than a mechanical device not having to rely on battery power if/when failing? Would it be far better than one(a compass) that will NEVER fail?
CR
I'm going to pick a nit here and suggest that your compass will not usually, as opposed to never, steer you wrong.
I'm sure there are a few wrecks in the Kingston area of Lake Ontario, that are sunk because their compass steered the their captain wrong.
Check the chart, that's some influential good old Canadian shield.
:-D
Lost my bearings at one time in an old power runabout and used the watch trick to determine where roughly were North and South respectively. The darn little boat did not have a working compass. We are lucky to live in a time where terrestrial navigation has evolved into the electronic age. These instruments can turn an amazing feat of good navigation into an everyday occurrence. The problem with computers is that when they fail the results could be outrageous so by keeping a compass I keep a check on the GPS/Chartplotter that it is steering me in a likely correct direction. I think of it as the old giving me confidence in the capabilities of the new.
Captnron is very correct. Use everything available. Here is one trick I used when the compass was rendered a nice to have but essentially inoperative. Three days in fog with less than 150 feet of visibility. Speed through the water or over the bottom was at best a wild guess since my knot log was small bits of paper tossed off the bow and timed when they were astern. A simple lead line provided all the information necessary to determine actual position by sailing along the shelf in Lake Ontario where the water drops from a relatively shallow 20 -30 feet to hundreds of feet deep. By setting the depth of the lead line it was an easy matter to steer using the sail set and proceeding along the shelf. If the angle was closer to straight down, out to deep. If the angle was further aft, too shallow. By transiting the 20 foot mark I was able to locate my harbor and know my position by using this little thing to plot fixes on the charted depths I was encountering. Water coloration was also a key as shallow water especially in the ocean exhibits turquoise in the shallows to dark blue in the deep. Just some addition tricks for your navigator goody bag.
we dont need no stinking compass
I have to agree with captain Ron
I dont need no stinking GPS. dont have one, dont want one: What I have is a good compensated compass charts dividers VHF etc. Ive sailed the new england coat for the last 50 years without electronics Ill be 77 shortly I have no interest in gadgets. For those of you that like electronics thats Ok but to head out without a compass is a big mistake
(my opinion)
s
I have to agree with captain Ron
I dont need no stinking GPS. dont have one, dont want one: What I have is a good compensated compass charts dividers VHF etc. Ive sailed the new england coat for the last 50 years without electronics Ill be 77 shortly I have no interest in gadgets. For those of you that like electronics thats Ok but to head out without a compass is a big mistake
(my opinion)
s
Found someone
bffatcat, finally see someone on here older than me. I will be 76 next month. I do have a chart plotter, but like you, I would not leave the dock without a good compass and paper charts.
bffatcat, finally see someone on here older than me. I will be 76 next month. I do have a chart plotter, but like you, I would not leave the dock without a good compass and paper charts.
I've never really understood this "steering by the stars" stuff. The one time I tried it, I was taking a tug and barge from St.T to St. Barths w/o a compass onboard. I tried steering by the stars, but you know what, they move, so other than the north star, which was not very easily seen behind my left shoulder, inside the bridge, I really didn't have anything to steer by. It was a full moon (no loom from any island after the lights of St Croix faded away), flat calm night, so there was no wind or sea to help and we ended up north of Anguilla, a tad off course, to be sure, and well on our way to the UK.
I'm sure in an open Polynesian cat, with plenty of very experienced crew, sailing in steady trade winds (wind and seas from a constant direction) that steering a relatively straight course is possible, but to just steer by the stars (rather than as position identification) is just not that simple. Thank you anyway, but I'll keep my compass, for now.
I'm sure in an open Polynesian cat, with plenty of very experienced crew, sailing in steady trade winds (wind and seas from a constant direction) that steering a relatively straight course is possible, but to just steer by the stars (rather than as position identification) is just not that simple. Thank you anyway, but I'll keep my compass, for now.
Capta,
Great post man.
I was always under the impression that compasses were invented because the stars always moved location throughout the year.
All the other stars I believe, are in Hollywood & reading the lurid stories about them why would anyone want to use them to steer by?
CR
Great post man.
I was always under the impression that compasses were invented because the stars always moved location throughout the year.
All the other stars I believe, are in Hollywood & reading the lurid stories about them why would anyone want to use them to steer by?
CR
Love the posts to this thread. As with any one type of instrument there is the probability of failure. This is why I endeavor to cross check and learn all sorts of ways to keep going toward my destination. GPS fails, sextants are reliant on visibility, and compasses break. When visibility is low and a fix is unavailable the compass only tells you we go thataway. The drawback being a compass heading is reliant on a determined location. As you said Captron, the prudent navigator uses "ALL" available means to conduct the safe passage of the vessel. Yes a compass is part of "All" yet I qualify that as it isn't the end all be all in an effort to caution others to not rely solely on a compass for the aforementioned reasons. Actually steering a reasonably straight course by stars is an old mariners' trick. This was prior to lighted compensated compasses. One needs to periodically adjust the star target to compensate for the track across the sky. I found this to be preferential to staring at a gyro repeater for hours on end while working on ships. It also provides the added benefit of maintaining a lookout for other ships. So to summarize, by all means use a compass and at the same time recognize its' limitations and add any and everything to your navigators bag of tricks up to and including some Polynesian techniques. Happy sailing.
As with so much else, the compass wasn't developed on a whim and it didn't proliferate as a navigation tool by accident. Once discovered/invented, it instantly increased the likelihood of a safe return many fold. I consider their type of navigation to be irresponsible, or will they forgo EPIRBS, VHF and satphones too? How many times have people gone out into the wilderness as purists only to need rescue at great expense and peril to others? This is like trying to live a Maine winter in the woods in skins without fire. People did it at one time so it must be the right way to do it, right? In fact, you're only a true Mainer if you do it this way. As an experiment, an adventure, sure. But I'd bet any Polynesian skipper would have traded several of his wives for a compass, or maybe toss a couple of his sons into a volcano as tribute.
for Nom de guerre and any other non compass sailors
If you have a compensated compass or at least a deviation card You should not hit the bricks!\unless of course you have a screwdriver or some other piece of ferrous metal nearby which will throw your compass off
If you have a compensated compass or at least a deviation card You should not hit the bricks!\unless of course you have a screwdriver or some other piece of ferrous metal nearby which will throw your compass off