Waxing and polishing, I`m over my head

[DAVA390]

On the P23 I`m getting ready, its time to turn to the outside. Years of neglect have left her white and dull. Not chalky to touch, won`t rub off on you in the driveway, but ugly. I`ve never done this ,only wax a car or pickup truck occasionally. With the last boat some wax/cleaner got her shiny, I was lucky there I guess.
I`ve been reading MS forum hits and decided to (try,sorta) to go with his formula of 3M rubbing compound, finess polish, then a can of the paste wax (the name escapes me now,the can is in the shed) but I have it now. All 3M products
now, yesterday evening when I started, I only had purchased the Rubbing compound. The finesse and wax did arrive today late. So, last night ,I started o a 3X 6 test spot, starboard bow. I hand applied rubbing compound. While rubbing it in, noticed dirty swirls and uneven coloring. This didn`t come out to well when I buffed it off, left uneven look to say the least.Now, not leaving well enough (or not well), I decided to try another experiment . With the boat came 2 bottles of Starbright Cleaner /wax brand new. I decided to try a small spot of that on the compounded surface as another test. Did a 1x2 spot under the numbers and it came out looking like crap. Ran buffer medium speed, wool type pad 15-20 minutes,came out blotchy, uneven , no shine at all.

Today when I got home, the 3M stuff had arrived, I tried some finness on the same area and it got away from me, still have swirl marks the buffer won`t get out, the whole 3X6 looks like hell now. So, keep pluggin on...do I need to get some kind of cleaner solvent, remover, wipe the whole thing down, start over? I`m 1/2 inch away from hiring a detailer and getting him to bail me out here.. Dave

 

[dscribner]

No advice, but hang in there brother. MS said it takes hours. If I had put the 30 hours of prep and painting into compound and buffing, I'd probably have a better looking boat right now. But the accent stripe would be an ugly green and Mamma would NOT be happy. But think of a romantic evening sail, a quiet cove with Anne and a bottle of Merlot . . . makes it worth it!

 

[Kermit]

I'm reading the sailboat refinishing section of Don Casey's "Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual." My boat is chalky and I'm hoping to learn a little something. It'll be after Christmas before I actually start on it. I'm interested in reading about your progress. Good luck!

 

[Ron20324]

I always go with start with the mild-stuff liquid cleaners first. If that doesn't do it, move to something more agressive, like buffing polish/compound, polish, then rubbing compound. Use the stuff with grit in it as the last resort. My first boat I thought I'd just start with rubbing compund, but the hull was not the same after that.

 

[Maine Sail]

#1 "by hand" won't do squat unless you are Mr. Miyagi, and even then you'll wind up in the hospital before your boat shines.......

#2 We really need more specifics.

What 3M Compound (part #)
What Pad (part # & brand "wool type pad" does not tell me much and the pads are CRITICAL)
What buffer (brand & model)
Pad speed when buffing
How much compound did you put on the pad
Did you physically wash the hull before starting
Did you gradually increase pad speed
Did you keep the buffer moving at all times
Did you keep it as flat as possible
Were you "pushing" the buffer into the hull or letting it do the work?

 

[Bosman]

I was recently helping friend of mine to clean up the hull of the boat he had purchased recently. It was definitely on the dirty and UV damaged side. Similarly, we found that 3M rubbing compound did not perform all that well. We tried different approach - we first wet sanded the hull with 1000 grid and then 2000 grid sandpaper. The results were outstanding and after final application of marine wax, the hull colour went from grey to bright white with near mirror shine to it. It took some time, but it was well worth it. Good luck with your project!

 

[Brian S]

I used 3M products on my Harpoon last year, and it looks ok. This year I used MaineSail's tutorial, and Presta products that he recommended. MUCH better results. I am a Presta convert.

As for chalky looking, my topsides were dull, and shined up well with Gel Coat Compound first. (Then Ultra Cutting Creme.) However, the cabintop and cockpit were chalky, and required wet sanding first with 1000 grit, and I see now that I could have done a better job wet sanding.

Further, I went plenty spendy with a new Makita polisher, and the recommended 3M wool pads.

Brian

 

[Bob S]

I've always had troubles topside. Not with the results but with access. My toe rail/stanchions are in the way. I'm usually crippled halfway through the job. I think but I could be wrong that you need to start with a clean hull. I use Mary Kate's On/Off as recommended but I've heard some have used muratic acid. Then a good hosing.
Once it's restored I just Finesse It wax it and she looks great. I've had good luck using foam pads for buffing.

 

[DAVA390]

Reply to MS query : Supply list, I bought: 3m rubbing compound #09004, Marine Finesse it glaze#09048,3m Ultra performance wax #09030.
Some stuff came with the boat Starbrite Cleaner wax,3m cleaner &wax #09009, Marine RV 50 Cleaner wax.
Pads . I am terribly guilty here . I have been looking for (and still am) the correct ones. My local WM, my marina , car parts store are pretty thin. I hoped to find them locally but looks like another online order is needed. I decided to do these tests with what came with the borrowed buffers.
These are: Harbr. Freightt. 7" angle buffer .variable speed. 10" orbital . fixed speed. I used the Hrbr. Frt. one this time, didn`t have any wool pads with the orbital, only terrycloth.
Speed, mostly medium speeds until frustrastion set in, sped things up to try to improve finishing.
Big Mistake: I did not put any rubbing compound on the machines to apply. It hand rubbed on as if I was waxing a car (my total experience here). I`m guessing that was wrong..
No I did not physically wash the boat, I did wipe it off with a dry cloth.
Yes ,pad speed did increase during buffing. I did not push it hard into the boat it would stop spinning, I kept it loose to keep the speed up.
II`m painfully aware this is a bad start, wondering if I can just clean off and restart or do I need to start buying (and researching ) sandpaper?

 

[sesmith]

The master (Maine Sail) has responded. Listen to him well. I am only going to add that it takes a while for someone to learn to run a buffer well, and just any old buffer is not a buffer (you get what you pay for), so don't feel bad. I'm guessing that you may need to wet sand your boat first. It takes a combination of good equipment, good pads, good products, and good technique to get good results. If you could find a good detailer who doesn't mind you asking some questions, and watch how he does it and take notes, it might be money well spent.

FWIW, a Makita 9227 buffer and Presta products and pads will take care of all unknowns except your buffing technique.

 

[Maine Sail]

#1 Throw away the RO buffer for gelcoat.

#2 The HFT rotary buffer is borderline capable. I burned one out just doing a dinghy. They will not hold a constant speed, as you found out, and this makes it very tough to bring up a shine. If it is all you have then you'll just have to work around its inadequacies... The Makita 9227C is a real rotary buffer and the performance difference between it and the HFT is amazing... I own both so can make these statements based on actual use of each product. For the price the HFT is a decent disposable level tool. It will make your job harder though..

#3 The right pads are CRITICALLY important. The 3M 05711 (white wool) is good for compounding but not so goot for a final shine. The 3M 05713 (yellow wool) is good for light compounding and a final shine. Presta also makes some great pads.. Don't be fooled by off-brand wool pads they are NOT all the same...

#4 The compound is applied directly to the pad and you then mush it around a bit on the hull and start out on the slowest speed along with "bumping" the trigger to not get sling everywhere.

#5 Do not use any wax or products containing wax or silicones with your wool pads. NEVER wash them in warm or hot water!! I have wool pads that are 15 years old and still perfect because they have been used properly, and properly means NO WAXES, Oils or Silicones on them.... Good wool pads should last years and years and years if properly used. Used incorrectly they are expensive disposable products...

 

[DAVA390]

MS, (and others) thanks for your replies and thanks for not taking me to the wood shed. I will get a Makita 9227 today or tomorrow and find correct pads. I am a Makita fan, have 18 volt stuff already. We expect to be in this boat for the long run,it will be used again, (or my kids will end up with it!). A far as the area already done,(or damaged) would it hurt to start again with rubb compound or should it be remediated first?

 

[Rich Stidger]

#4 The compound is applied directly to the pad and you then mush it around a bit on the hull and start out on the slowest speed along with "bumping" the trigger to not get sling everywhere.

I have always applied the Presta polish or compound to the hull with a hand pad and spread it thinly over the working area. I thought this technique would minimize the build-up of material on the buffing pad and extend it's useable life.

Why is it better to apply the material directly to the buffing pad, and why is my reasoning of minimizing the buffing pad load-up incorrect?

 

[spraygun]

The buffer on the right is a rotary buffer.It is the work horse.The buffer on the left is a random orbital. It removes all the swirls and also puts on the wax.

 

[Maine Sail]

I have always applied the Presta polish or compound to the hull with a hand pad and spread it thinly over the working area. I thought this technique would minimize the build-up of material on the buffing pad and extend it's useable life.

Why is it better to apply the material directly to the buffing pad, and why is my reasoning of minimizing the buffing pad load-up incorrect?

Rich,

In a perfect world this works well in my world it does not always. The spread tends to dry out faster and cause pad glazing. By applying direct to the pad it tends to keep moist longer especially in the "cut" phase. When the compound drys it also tends to diminish faster which can make any cutting harder. Over the years and too many hulls to keep track of I've found the compound applied to the pad in an X or cross to be the most repeatable and reliable.
Bottom line is if it works for you and you are getting the shine you want with the effort you are happy about then keep doing what works for you...

 

[Ward H]

Dava390,
It sounds like you read MS's article on buffing and polishing but when you got to the boat, you varied the process.
I never used a buffer/polisher before. I read MS's tutorial, bought the equipment he suggested and the 3M products he suggested. Which were the same 3M stuff you bought.
The topsides on my 33yr old Oday were not chalky but dull. Also had several scratches.
I put MS's article on my iPad and read each step before I started. This helped a lot. I started by wet sanding the scratched areas with 400 grit, moving up to 1500. Then started buffing and then polishing. All the shine is in the gel coat. The wax is just protecting it.
I've gotten many comments on the shine and the marina owner called me one night to see if I could do some boats for him. That was a compliment.
Be patient, gather the right tools and products and review Maine's tutorial before each step. You got off to a bad start but you will get it and when you do, you will be thrilled with what you have done.

 

[DAVA390]

Ward, you nailed it. Thanks

 

[Bold Rascal]

Okay, I'm a little late to this thread and not a frequent contributor to SBO but I would like to make a suggestion to anyone with the same issue as the original poster on the topic of freshening up the hull's appearance.

Hand buffing is laborious, done right as suggested the results are spectacular and I appreciate as much as anyone the result and effort that goes into achieving it. There is another option though, the results may not be as spectacular as a supreme buffing job but certainly worth considering especially with the boat in water.

Poli Glow. Easy, inexpensive, and 2 years later still looking great.
No connection other than a very satisfied customer.

 

[Jumpstart]

Be very careful with the high speed buffer. Friend of mine was buffing his hull with the cover on in the spring. Stray line from cover inadvertently got caught in buffer and one of his fingers. Ripped his finger off at the first joint. Extremely painful and now he has a short finger. His friends had to spend some time wiping the blood off adjacent boats and finding his mangled finger while he went to the hospital.

I use 3M™ Marine High Gloss Gelcoat Compound, 06025. Then Finesse it, then Collinite hand applied. It kept my 30 year old gel coat looking great on my last boat.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I think Makita did well when MS gave us his tutorial! I like the results with this buffer but I find Finesse It very difficult to get right. I often am frustrated after getting great results with the 3M compound and the white wool pad. I sometimes get a cloudier result with Finesse It, even with the 3M yellow wool pad.

Last year, after compounding, I didn't even bother with Finesse It and went straight to wax (I think I just wanted to get the job done and get in the water). This year, the shine was still good enough that I just cleaned, and the hull looks fine. I had enough going on that I didn't feel like I needed to add work. I guess that is one of the advantages of freshwater and a northern (relatively) climate.

Next year, I will get more ambitious and do the full monty I think, but with Presta products. Thanks for talking about the life of the pads. I've just cleaned mine with luke warm water and spun dry. I've never used anything but compound with the white pad and Finesse It with the yellow pad. I was wondering if there was degradation of the pads over time.