I would be interested to here from anyone who has had experience with watermakers. I have been thinking of buying one for our Hunter 34 as when we go cruising each year (usually for June , July and August) the only reason we are forced into marinas is for water. Food and fuel is managed with the dinghy no problems. The boat is equipped with a 500ah battery bank, 70ah alternator, Air X marine, 75w solar panel so power shouldnt be a problem but are they really worth the money. I was thinking of something like a little wonder (8gph) but any other suggestions or advice would be most welcome. Thanks in advance Andrew
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My Karen Thorndike soap box...
I'm sure some get tired of my ranting, but two situations that might help you out here, neither of which answer your question directly. 1. A seasoned skipper friend has a Pure water maker that he has never used. He purchased it with the intent of doing some extended cruising. Even sailing down the left coast to San Diego he found it more convenient to top off at each port of call. They perform much better away from coastal pollution where they are less prone to clog and foul. 2. Karen Thorndike relied on her 40 gallon tank for all her water needs during her two year circumnavigation. She explained to me that we are way too over washed. Her longest stint between ports was 80 days. During that time it was collected rain water and her tank for hydration, meals and washing. Bud
I'm sure some get tired of my ranting, but two situations that might help you out here, neither of which answer your question directly. 1. A seasoned skipper friend has a Pure water maker that he has never used. He purchased it with the intent of doing some extended cruising. Even sailing down the left coast to San Diego he found it more convenient to top off at each port of call. They perform much better away from coastal pollution where they are less prone to clog and foul. 2. Karen Thorndike relied on her 40 gallon tank for all her water needs during her two year circumnavigation. She explained to me that we are way too over washed. Her longest stint between ports was 80 days. During that time it was collected rain water and her tank for hydration, meals and washing. Bud
Well, here we go.
We're the opposite. Our H34 did and does what it does for us because of the watermaker. All of the design and functionality is on my web site so I won't get into a pissing match here. (oops, no pun intended)
We're the opposite. Our H34 did and does what it does for us because of the watermaker. All of the design and functionality is on my web site so I won't get into a pissing match here. (oops, no pun intended)
Yeah....
and we don't need tv's, a/c, outboards or everything else that makes boating fun. I feel your pain re refilling at marinas, I dream of having a watermaker....
and we don't need tv's, a/c, outboards or everything else that makes boating fun. I feel your pain re refilling at marinas, I dream of having a watermaker....
We liked our Spectra watermaker.
We had a Spectra watermaker on our H43 which we sailed from San Diego down to Cabo and into the Sea of Cortez. We tried to be careful about our water usage, but we did not considered ourselves ‘on vacation’ or ‘out camping’, so we showered regularly and we frequently did laundry on board. Water is pretty hard to come by in the Sea of Cortez, so it was nice to be able to stay out at the islands and not run back to La Paz for water. We removed that watermaker when we sold the boat and took it with us to New Orleans where we installed it on our H45, which we sailed down to Trinidad and back. Paying 50 cents per gallon in the Caribbean and the inconvenience of hauling it or going into a marina made it worth it to us. We tried to run it when we had to motor and we kept track of our production/usage so that we didn’t run it unnecessarily although the Spectra is pretty efficient - 1 amp per gallon. We used about 12-14 gallons total per day for 2 people.
We had a Spectra watermaker on our H43 which we sailed from San Diego down to Cabo and into the Sea of Cortez. We tried to be careful about our water usage, but we did not considered ourselves ‘on vacation’ or ‘out camping’, so we showered regularly and we frequently did laundry on board. Water is pretty hard to come by in the Sea of Cortez, so it was nice to be able to stay out at the islands and not run back to La Paz for water. We removed that watermaker when we sold the boat and took it with us to New Orleans where we installed it on our H45, which we sailed down to Trinidad and back. Paying 50 cents per gallon in the Caribbean and the inconvenience of hauling it or going into a marina made it worth it to us. We tried to run it when we had to motor and we kept track of our production/usage so that we didn’t run it unnecessarily although the Spectra is pretty efficient - 1 amp per gallon. We used about 12-14 gallons total per day for 2 people.
Worth Looking Into.....
The link below will take you to the site that tells about what looks like the answer to small boat sailors dreams. I don't know anyone who has one yet, but it sounds great! HTH, George
The link below will take you to the site that tells about what looks like the answer to small boat sailors dreams. I don't know anyone who has one yet, but it sounds great! HTH, George
George, those are lame.
Cruisers spend 95% of their time at anchor or (gads) in a marina. How much water will that thing make then?
Cruisers spend 95% of their time at anchor or (gads) in a marina. How much water will that thing make then?
Andrew, check out Sail magazine...
several issues ago they did a very good comparison of several types and brands of water makers. You might be able to locate the issue on their web site. Anyway, I recall them stating to avoid using a watermaker in a harbor or marina because of the crud in the water fouling the unit, especially in southern third world waters. Bud
several issues ago they did a very good comparison of several types and brands of water makers. You might be able to locate the issue on their web site. Anyway, I recall them stating to avoid using a watermaker in a harbor or marina because of the crud in the water fouling the unit, especially in southern third world waters. Bud
Village Marine Units
I know there are a number of excellent units, however, I have had experience with two Village Marine units. My uncle has had one for 15 years on his trawler and used it continuously on his Avalon harbor mooring for the summers he spent there. No problems and didn't pickel it often either, altho he did always fresh flush it. Another friend has a unit on his sail boat that has been running for over a year and a half. It has an automatic fresh water flush. Also, my neighbor installed a Little Wonder on has 420 for a Mexico trip and he was satisfied with it. By the way, all of these were run in harbors with no serious side effects, and they weren't all pristine either. According to the VM rep, they are a lot more tolerant than people think if well pre-filtered, if fuel/oil isn't present and if fresh-water flushed. Again, however, this is information from other people's experience, not my own. Rick D.
I know there are a number of excellent units, however, I have had experience with two Village Marine units. My uncle has had one for 15 years on his trawler and used it continuously on his Avalon harbor mooring for the summers he spent there. No problems and didn't pickel it often either, altho he did always fresh flush it. Another friend has a unit on his sail boat that has been running for over a year and a half. It has an automatic fresh water flush. Also, my neighbor installed a Little Wonder on has 420 for a Mexico trip and he was satisfied with it. By the way, all of these were run in harbors with no serious side effects, and they weren't all pristine either. According to the VM rep, they are a lot more tolerant than people think if well pre-filtered, if fuel/oil isn't present and if fresh-water flushed. Again, however, this is information from other people's experience, not my own. Rick D.
Fred,
If you are in a marina, you have water. If you are at anchor, the unit can be operated under power. George
If you are in a marina, you have water. If you are at anchor, the unit can be operated under power. George
Watermakers other considerations
We are currently cruising the Caribbean and use an SK water (which we love, quality and price). You don't say where your cruising grounds are at but a consideration is replacment parts. Since we hve been out here we have seenmany different manufactures of watermakers that have had parts failures. Parts from the pumps (spectra) to membranes and the housings. Many water makers have propritery parts that can only purchased from the manufacture. In the Caribe that means expensive shipments and very long waits. We have waited for other boat parts for as long as 7 weeks. We chose the SK watermaker partly because of quiality, support, and price. But also the avaliablity of parts anywhere in the world. It uses standard size membranes, fittings, and a 12 volt driven cat pump. Nothing in the system that can't be found easily.
We are currently cruising the Caribbean and use an SK water (which we love, quality and price). You don't say where your cruising grounds are at but a consideration is replacment parts. Since we hve been out here we have seenmany different manufactures of watermakers that have had parts failures. Parts from the pumps (spectra) to membranes and the housings. Many water makers have propritery parts that can only purchased from the manufacture. In the Caribe that means expensive shipments and very long waits. We have waited for other boat parts for as long as 7 weeks. We chose the SK watermaker partly because of quiality, support, and price. But also the avaliablity of parts anywhere in the world. It uses standard size membranes, fittings, and a 12 volt driven cat pump. Nothing in the system that can't be found easily.
R/O
Reverse-Osmosis (R/O) is not a new technology. In fact, large R/O plants have provided drinking water from seawater for a large portion of the world’s population for several decades. It has only been in the last fifteen years or so, however, that RO systems became small enough, reliable enough, and energy efficient enough to be considered standard gear on cruising boats. An informal survey among our CRUISING friends indicated that more than 50% now have a Watermaker installed, and an overwhelming majority of those who don’t - wish they did. The major problem with using R/O Watermakers in Harbour is primarily Petrochemical Pollution (Oil, Gas, Fuel, & some other chemicals such as Chlorine*), which will destroy the membrane. * Chlorine tolerance is usually < 0.1 ppm. Unless there has been a major oil spill, and/or the surface is churned up, any petroleum product that might be in the harbour water will float well above the intake points of most installations. A dissolved salt molecule is smaller than any bacteria, and most (known) viruses, hence the R/O Membrane is very effective in rejecting these microbiological contaminants - effectively purifying contaminated water*. Upon learning that I was installing an R/O Watermaker, our family Doctor recommended that we never use Municipal water again (even in North America). * In addition to boiling, Reverse Osmosis (RO) systems are recommended by the Centers for Disease Control as the most effective way of treating potable water. We used a Sea-Srainer to elliminate “grit” & grass etc. (solids), and then a 20 micron fabric pre-filter, feeding a 5 micron Activated Carbon filtre (to reduce contaminants such as chlorine, pesticides and organic chemicals, and to eliminate tastes and odours). Notwithstanding it’s poor reputation with cruisers, we happily used a PUR “Powersurvivor-35" for nine winters. It faultlessly provided ALL of our water (over 50 - 60 months use - perhaps 4,000 gallons of product water). We Pickled each spring (first pre-flushing with at least 10 gallons of R/O water). I’ve also installed (in no particular order of preference): Village Marine-Tec, Watermakers Inc., Spectra, Sea Recovery, Offshore Marine Lab’s, (... more ?) - all of which appeared to be high-quality equipment. I'll defer to others, regarding the capabilities & reliability of specific brands IN USE. Some Criteria for Selecting a Watermaker: 1. The first step in choosing a watermaker is calculating your anticipated water consumption. Gallons/Day Water Budget: Couples generally require: 3-5 Gallons/Day up to 6-8 GPD Crew of 3-4 requires: 6-10 GPD up to 12-16GPD I recommend choosing a model that can produce your calculated daily water needs in 2 to 4 hours of operation per day (or less), depending upon your available power. Ratings to Compare (between differing units): EFFICIENCY Amp/Hr per Gallon (12 VDC): Watt/Hr per Gallon: Current Draw (12 VDC): Size, Space, & Weight (Modular or Packaged): As a cruiser, you will spend more time maintaining your boat than you will on passagemaking, touring, or any other of the glamorous components of long-term sailing - so be certain that the equipment you chose (& the way you install it) is maintenance & repair “friendly”. Make it easy for “the next guy”; for you are likely he. HTH, Gord
Reverse-Osmosis (R/O) is not a new technology. In fact, large R/O plants have provided drinking water from seawater for a large portion of the world’s population for several decades. It has only been in the last fifteen years or so, however, that RO systems became small enough, reliable enough, and energy efficient enough to be considered standard gear on cruising boats. An informal survey among our CRUISING friends indicated that more than 50% now have a Watermaker installed, and an overwhelming majority of those who don’t - wish they did. The major problem with using R/O Watermakers in Harbour is primarily Petrochemical Pollution (Oil, Gas, Fuel, & some other chemicals such as Chlorine*), which will destroy the membrane. * Chlorine tolerance is usually < 0.1 ppm. Unless there has been a major oil spill, and/or the surface is churned up, any petroleum product that might be in the harbour water will float well above the intake points of most installations. A dissolved salt molecule is smaller than any bacteria, and most (known) viruses, hence the R/O Membrane is very effective in rejecting these microbiological contaminants - effectively purifying contaminated water*. Upon learning that I was installing an R/O Watermaker, our family Doctor recommended that we never use Municipal water again (even in North America). * In addition to boiling, Reverse Osmosis (RO) systems are recommended by the Centers for Disease Control as the most effective way of treating potable water. We used a Sea-Srainer to elliminate “grit” & grass etc. (solids), and then a 20 micron fabric pre-filter, feeding a 5 micron Activated Carbon filtre (to reduce contaminants such as chlorine, pesticides and organic chemicals, and to eliminate tastes and odours). Notwithstanding it’s poor reputation with cruisers, we happily used a PUR “Powersurvivor-35" for nine winters. It faultlessly provided ALL of our water (over 50 - 60 months use - perhaps 4,000 gallons of product water). We Pickled each spring (first pre-flushing with at least 10 gallons of R/O water). I’ve also installed (in no particular order of preference): Village Marine-Tec, Watermakers Inc., Spectra, Sea Recovery, Offshore Marine Lab’s, (... more ?) - all of which appeared to be high-quality equipment. I'll defer to others, regarding the capabilities & reliability of specific brands IN USE. Some Criteria for Selecting a Watermaker: 1. The first step in choosing a watermaker is calculating your anticipated water consumption. Gallons/Day Water Budget: Couples generally require: 3-5 Gallons/Day up to 6-8 GPD Crew of 3-4 requires: 6-10 GPD up to 12-16GPD I recommend choosing a model that can produce your calculated daily water needs in 2 to 4 hours of operation per day (or less), depending upon your available power. Ratings to Compare (between differing units): EFFICIENCY Amp/Hr per Gallon (12 VDC): Watt/Hr per Gallon: Current Draw (12 VDC): Size, Space, & Weight (Modular or Packaged): As a cruiser, you will spend more time maintaining your boat than you will on passagemaking, touring, or any other of the glamorous components of long-term sailing - so be certain that the equipment you chose (& the way you install it) is maintenance & repair “friendly”. Make it easy for “the next guy”; for you are likely he. HTH, Gord
George, they are even lamer than I thought.
Have you studied their web site? I found the power option. The $700.00 DC motor draws 20 amps and connects with jumper cable clamps! And the whole mess has to be hung from the end of the boom. You'll be well into $3300.00 for 3 gallons an hour @ 20 amp hours. (largest model) It figures that this is a European product. Some of those countries are, well, out of touch. OK, too polite, sorry. Anyway most sailors prefer to not drag a torpedo behind their boat. And if a modern built-in system is too expensive, they can be duplicated by a sailor who is handy and just a little mechanically inclined. There is lots of information on the web too. My system is modular. Runs off the engine. Puts out a little over 50 gallons an HOUR! (in warm summer water)It's about as simple as they come too. And unlike that torpedo, we aren't restricted to just making drinking water. We run our system less than an hour a day to make all the water we need to shower daily, wash dishes, cooking, drinking/ice making, washing/rinsing the top sides and soon to be plumbed, a fresh water anchor wash. All from seawater, available anytime with the push of a button. Our system can be duplicated for less than $2500.00. Try that with your torpedo. Sorry George, lame. My watermaker setup is seen on my web site, photos #117 through #121, among others. Did I mention that it shuts itself off automatically when the tank's full? Gord good post, as usual! P.S. And look at Glendas post. The Spectra puts out 1 gallon per amp. The torpedo motor uses about 7 amps per gallon. P.S.2 George, have you ever taken on water from a Mexican marina? We have. Once! Half sand. We used our watermaker in marinas from then on.
Have you studied their web site? I found the power option. The $700.00 DC motor draws 20 amps and connects with jumper cable clamps! And the whole mess has to be hung from the end of the boom. You'll be well into $3300.00 for 3 gallons an hour @ 20 amp hours. (largest model) It figures that this is a European product. Some of those countries are, well, out of touch. OK, too polite, sorry. Anyway most sailors prefer to not drag a torpedo behind their boat. And if a modern built-in system is too expensive, they can be duplicated by a sailor who is handy and just a little mechanically inclined. There is lots of information on the web too. My system is modular. Runs off the engine. Puts out a little over 50 gallons an HOUR! (in warm summer water)It's about as simple as they come too. And unlike that torpedo, we aren't restricted to just making drinking water. We run our system less than an hour a day to make all the water we need to shower daily, wash dishes, cooking, drinking/ice making, washing/rinsing the top sides and soon to be plumbed, a fresh water anchor wash. All from seawater, available anytime with the push of a button. Our system can be duplicated for less than $2500.00. Try that with your torpedo. Sorry George, lame. My watermaker setup is seen on my web site, photos #117 through #121, among others. Did I mention that it shuts itself off automatically when the tank's full? Gord good post, as usual! P.S. And look at Glendas post. The Spectra puts out 1 gallon per amp. The torpedo motor uses about 7 amps per gallon. P.S.2 George, have you ever taken on water from a Mexican marina? We have. Once! Half sand. We used our watermaker in marinas from then on.
Fred, I Agree With You...
The power setup is lame. However, if they are used as designed, they should keep the tanks topped-off for the offshore sailor with a minimum of fuss. As always, it's different strokes for different folks.
The power setup is lame. However, if they are used as designed, they should keep the tanks topped-off for the offshore sailor with a minimum of fuss. As always, it's different strokes for different folks.
As always,,, different strokes, true.
The work that went into my system was numbing, mentally and physically. The room that the RO vessel is located in now, used to be my wifes half of the stern berth. And also like it says on my web site, all of the equipment in that new equipment room used to be either in the engine room or on the other side of that bulkhead which is the cockpit storage locker. I became too old to crawl in and out of there for hours at a time. But, without the water maker, we would have had to buy a bigger boat. One thing's for sure, I haven't been flooded with orders for the accessory drive I made.
The work that went into my system was numbing, mentally and physically. The room that the RO vessel is located in now, used to be my wifes half of the stern berth. And also like it says on my web site, all of the equipment in that new equipment room used to be either in the engine room or on the other side of that bulkhead which is the cockpit storage locker. I became too old to crawl in and out of there for hours at a time. But, without the water maker, we would have had to buy a bigger boat. One thing's for sure, I haven't been flooded with orders for the accessory drive I made.
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