watermakers

[capta]

As a full-time liveaboard cruiser, I have decided that a 20 gallon per hour watermaker (with my solar working so well, I use the generator less, requiring more gph on the h2o maker) is pretty essential.
Problem is, every manufacturer has some hype about their unit & I haven't a clue as to what's real.
Some tout back-flush w/o chemicals (which "they" say lengthens membrane life?), others have safety systems that monitor water quality (for 3k more), and one has all non-proprietary parts (that sounds good, doesn't it?).
I'm sure I could assemble a good system for much less than a commercial unit, but is there a drawback to doing that?
I would like to hear from anyone w/ first hand experience using a watermaker aboard a cruising boat; the good &/or the bad. Any suggestions or advice welcome, before I buy or build the WRONG unit.
Thanks all.

 

[Kermit]

Due West of what?

Sorry, just couldn't help but throw in a little South Carolina humor. I have absolutely no idea about water makers.

Kermit

 

[Rick D]

Village Marine

My uncle and a friend both had Village Marine water makers. Both pre-dated the automatic back flush and water quality monitoring. However, both had a back flushing valve system plumbed in. For water quality, my friend had a kit to test before he turned the valve to fill the tank. My uncle filled a bottle until it tasted right.

My uncle's was about 10 GPH and he used it all summer on his Avalon mooring. He had a gen set running most of the time on his power boat, so the output was fine. My friend had an 8KW generator and ran the 20 GPH water maker whenever he ran the genset.

I don't think you need the bells and whistles. It's pretty simple. If they are part of the deal, or cheap, then sure, why not? However, if solar is your primary source, I'm thinking 20 GPH may be more than you need. Solar is only going to provide so much, but it will do so for at least half a day, so maybe an alternative is to size it to the run time and volume desired. Both these guys said they are happier when run than sitting.

BTW, my uncle never did pickle his over the 15 years he used it although he went through a few membranes.

So, all second hand stuff here, but hopefully some things to help in further research.

 

[Bill Roosa]

For $2+K I'm pretty sure I could make a rain catchment that would go a long way toward my daily water consumption. An inch of rain collected off an 8'x8' bimini (9216 in^3) is 39.9 gal. You can collect off sails and the deck also with a little thought and some caulk dams.
How many gal/day/person are you planing for?
How big is your fresh water holding tank?

 

[All U Get]

I saw this site and thought it was usefull. http://www.echotecwatermakers.com/?gclid=CMDNuLyqyKkCFcTd4AodhlmANg

All U Get

 

[Jerry Clark H356 SV Persi]

http://www.cruiserowaterandpower.com/WaterMakers.html

I don't have a watermaker, but have done a lot of research and these people have a simple and economical system at 20 gph. They were very helpful when I called to discuss their product. I plan on eventually installing a watermaker, and this is the unit I will install. It will work well in salt, brackish or fresh water with simply setting the flow rate to match the design of the unit.

If I were you, I'd seriously consider this product.

 

[RichH]

I was deeply involved in 'filtration engineering and membrane technology' for many many years. I built my own engine driven, manually controlled 25 gallon per hour RO machine using high quality 'off-the-shelf' components for about $1200 about 6-8 years ago.

There is an article by a Leo Lichtveld that closely equals my system at http://sites.google.com/site/llichtveld/newpage. All the components listed are 'stock stuff' and many are probably obsolete since he wrote this article many years ago.... so you would have to do your homework to find the 'current' models & pricing, etc.
You can use brass high pressure hose connections and a stainless steel high pressure pump and even find many of the components on eBay, etc. and could probably still build a good working engine driven RO for $1000 or less .... or you could 'gold plate' it with stainless connector high pressure hose, bronze head hi pressure pump and buy 'over the counter' ... for about $1600-$1700 for a 20 gallon per hour system.
Note - The feed pump MUST be rated for CONTINUOUS DUTY (not protected by a thermal cutoff switch) to insure constant feed water to the hi pressure pump .... or if the feed pump cuts off, youll instantly seize the high pressure pump.

Caution: Reverse Osmosis membranes although they can separate small molecular sizes are not 'guaranteed' to produce 'healthy water' due to inherent manufacturing defects in the membrane. Therefore my recommendation is you should NOT use a RO in a harbor, in proximity/downstream of a city, in a large crowded anchorage; use only where the water has a high probability of being unpolluted and free of human $#!T, etc.

Questions, etc. ... lemme know. ;-)

 

[capta]

Thanks all.
As for rain catchment, I had one boat w/ a system that worked very well, except that tropical downpours rarely lasted long enough to clean the system enough to get much usable h2o, especially @ sea when most needed.

 

[Bill Roosa]

That is the big issue with rain catchment Capta, storage between inputs. Typically you see fresh water only being used for cooking, drinking and as a final rinse in showers/sinks. Everything else is accomplished by seawater. The Admeral and I have tried this on a few occasions and we got our fresh water usage (less coffee, we drink a lot of coffee) to 1.0 gal/person/day. With a 110 gal storage and two people that give us about 55 days between fills as a best case. The hardest part was taking cold sea water showers followed by a hot fresh water rinse. You just do not want to turn off that hot water.
On another note, how did you arive at 20 gph as the design size for your situation? I assume you don't want to run the thing all the time a 3 drips per second due to the high power consumption and are trying to "batch process" enough for some period of time. is that correct?

 

[capta]

Bill Roosa
As I said previously, w/ my solar I've now a surplus of 12 volt dc, so much so that I'm going to install a much bigger inverter & a second house bank so I can run my 110 volt refer on 12 volts & use more of the solar input. At present on a sunny day, the controller shuts down the solar charging by noon.
Even if I can't always run the refer on 12 volts, my gene time will be significantly reduced, therefore I need a watermaker that puts out enough h2o for my needs in less time.
At present, I get about 3 weeks on 150 gallons of tank h2o so I should have h2o to burn @ 20 gph. My gene is only running @ 1/3rd load @ present w/o air conditioning so the h2o maker will help load that too.
When I circumnavigated in the 70's there were no h2o makers so I had to do rain catchment &/or get h2o from shore; not always the safest thing in the 3rd world. However, I've always been cautious when making a crossing, even now as a single hander, (I crossed the Indian & Atlantic oceans w/ 2 adults & a kid w/60 tank gallons; no fresh h2o rinses on those trips), so maybe I can relax a bit w/300 tank gallons & an h2o maker!
Last winter h2o was 17 cents a gallon in St. Thomas (even more down island) & was very heavily chlorinated. Just awful, even for a shower.
Hope that answers your questions.

 

[Stu Jackson]

It never rains in Southern California...

The best advice I've ever heard about H20 systems is to buy a bigger one.

Really.

The concept is that the higher GPH or GPD will end up with a smaller daily electrical load.

Think about it, do the math.

 

[capta]

Stu
I guess you missed the part where I NEED the load on the gene when it is running for other reasons.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Yup, guess I did.

 

[All U Get]

Stu
I guess you missed the part where I NEED the load on the gene when it is running for other reasons.

Capta,
We just bought a Pearson 530 and I'm interested in what you have for solar panels. We intend on doing some long cruises and would appreciate any other bits of wisdom.
All U Get

 

[Stu Jackson]

Going back to your original questions, here's what a friend of mine didf: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5257.0.html

 

[capta]

All you get
I hope you like the boat as much as I do. Every day I appreciate this boat more & more, especially since I knew little of Pearson or the 530.
I don't know how to contact you privately thru this sight, but if you'd like to????
Where are you located?
I'm in RI presently, but will move on after I get the h2o maker in.
Regards

 

[MaranaF]

Hi capta

I have gone through the same research over the last year during my refit trying to decide on how best to fill the tanks with water and at the same time getting a lot of experience working with water makers on the boats I have been commissioning and delivering.

The conclusion I have drawn is yes, get a bigger one than you think you need. And, look at the running costs. The membranes and other service "wet" parts can be done for just a few hundred on some systems while on others they are a few thousand.

Oh, and fit really good pre-filters, make sure they are easy to access, have spares, and make sure you fit isolation (service) valves everywhere.

Stephen