water temp alarm

[Fred Ficarra]

I'm getting rid of my teflon tape.

Enough! Permatex #2 for me. Works on everything. Hotrods and muscle cars too. And since buying my infrared thermometer, I'm wondering how I got along without it. It's my most useful tool, even more than Permatex.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

I'm getting rid of my teflon tape.

Enough! Permatex #2 for me. Works on everything. Hotrods and muscle cars too. And since buying my infrared thermometer, I'm wondering how I got along without it. It's my most useful tool, even more than Permatex.

 

[Dennis W.]

Clogged mixing elbow

John, The primary cause of restriction in the mixing elbo starts with short runs, insufficient load on engine, or long periods of slow idle which allows carbon/soot to build up. This restricts water flow and the subsequent higher temperature in the elbo. This is first noticed as steam at the exhaust. Salt water to steam means condensate build up at the point the steam is produced. The result is insufficient raw water flow to keep cooling system cool accompanied by more steam from the exhaust.Dennis W.S/V FullSailed

 

[Dennis W.]

Clogged mixing elbow

John, The primary cause of restriction in the mixing elbo starts with short runs, insufficient load on engine, or long periods of slow idle which allows carbon/soot to build up. This restricts water flow and the subsequent higher temperature in the elbo. This is first noticed as steam at the exhaust. Salt water to steam means condensate build up at the point the steam is produced. The result is insufficient raw water flow to keep cooling system cool accompanied by more steam from the exhaust.Dennis W.S/V FullSailed

 

[John]

more weirdness

On the Catalina 36 association list it had been suggested to me that I test out the temp sending unit and the gauge by taking the unit out, wiring it up, and put it in a pot of hot water with a thermometer in the water. That way, I could tell if the gauge is reporting accurately. It seemed to do so for a minute, and then the gauge suddenly starting swinging wildly, all the way past 250 degrees and then back. The funny thing is that my friend who was helping me noticed that the battery gauge on the steering wheel panel was also registering off - it was showing at about 16 volts. (I have fairly new sealed batteries.) We ran the engine for a little bit, and the gauge did the same thing as well as the alarm sounding although the engine couldn't have run for long enough to overheat.The way that panel on the steering column is laid out, the battery gauge is directly underneath the temp gauge. So what I'm thinking now is that there is some short inside that panel. It's been raining here the last week, so maybe water got in there. What does this sound like?Also, my suspicion is that I didn't bleed the engine for long enough so that in addition it may have been overheating due to air in the cooling system.

 

[John]

more weirdness

On the Catalina 36 association list it had been suggested to me that I test out the temp sending unit and the gauge by taking the unit out, wiring it up, and put it in a pot of hot water with a thermometer in the water. That way, I could tell if the gauge is reporting accurately. It seemed to do so for a minute, and then the gauge suddenly starting swinging wildly, all the way past 250 degrees and then back. The funny thing is that my friend who was helping me noticed that the battery gauge on the steering wheel panel was also registering off - it was showing at about 16 volts. (I have fairly new sealed batteries.) We ran the engine for a little bit, and the gauge did the same thing as well as the alarm sounding although the engine couldn't have run for long enough to overheat.The way that panel on the steering column is laid out, the battery gauge is directly underneath the temp gauge. So what I'm thinking now is that there is some short inside that panel. It's been raining here the last week, so maybe water got in there. What does this sound like?Also, my suspicion is that I didn't bleed the engine for long enough so that in addition it may have been overheating due to air in the cooling system.

 

[Maine Sail]

John...

I'll say it again you can't properly diagnose engine temp issue without knowing the actual running temp and you can;t depend solely on your temp gauge for this................ Put everything back together, buy a infrared, put her under load at the dock and begin shooting the thermometer at the thermostat housing and comparing it with what the gauge says. You can also aim it at the HX, exhaust elbow, water pump and cylinder bank exhaust ports. I highly doubt the exhaust elbow is plugged with only 325 hours but with a boat anything is possible.1) make sure you have AMPLE water flow and that the intake strainer and lines from the through hull are perfectly clear of weeds. More often than not crap gets caught in the intake line before the strainer!2)Make sure all air is out of the system3)Check the impeller4)Shoot the engine under load to determine actual operating temperature

 

[Maine Sail]

John...

I'll say it again you can't properly diagnose engine temp issue without knowing the actual running temp and you can;t depend solely on your temp gauge for this................ Put everything back together, buy a infrared, put her under load at the dock and begin shooting the thermometer at the thermostat housing and comparing it with what the gauge says. You can also aim it at the HX, exhaust elbow, water pump and cylinder bank exhaust ports. I highly doubt the exhaust elbow is plugged with only 325 hours but with a boat anything is possible.1) make sure you have AMPLE water flow and that the intake strainer and lines from the through hull are perfectly clear of weeds. More often than not crap gets caught in the intake line before the strainer!2)Make sure all air is out of the system3)Check the impeller4)Shoot the engine under load to determine actual operating temperature

 

[Maine Sail]

Here's the procedure for testing a temp gauge..

1. To test gauge, voltage from “I” to “G” terminals must be 10-16 VDC. With no wire on “S” terminal the gauge pointer should rest below 120F. Next, connect or jumper the “S” terminal to the “G” terminal (but leave “I” and “G” terminals connected). The gauge pointer should now rest above 240F. This is of course a very crude test and does nothing to test the accuracy of the temp gauge but will give you an idea if it's working at all.

 

[Maine Sail]

Here's the procedure for testing a temp gauge..

1. To test gauge, voltage from “I” to “G” terminals must be 10-16 VDC. With no wire on “S” terminal the gauge pointer should rest below 120F. Next, connect or jumper the “S” terminal to the “G” terminal (but leave “I” and “G” terminals connected). The gauge pointer should now rest above 240F. This is of course a very crude test and does nothing to test the accuracy of the temp gauge but will give you an idea if it's working at all.

 

[RichH]

Re: more weirdness......

For many of such 'sending units' (especially if they have only 1 wire connection) the electrical ground is through the sender and into the engine, etc. Usually such gages have to be installed 'dry' (on the threads - not with PTFE tape or 'dope' ) to get a good electrical contact. If you must use tape/dope then only a 'single' wrap.

 

[RichH]

Re: more weirdness......

For many of such 'sending units' (especially if they have only 1 wire connection) the electrical ground is through the sender and into the engine, etc. Usually such gages have to be installed 'dry' (on the threads - not with PTFE tape or 'dope' ) to get a good electrical contact. If you must use tape/dope then only a 'single' wrap.

 

[John]

waiting

Okay, I ordered an infrared thermometer as Maine Sail recommended me to. While I'm waiting for it to be delivered ($25 online from Cabella's vs. $85 from Napa auto parts), I'll check out the temp gauge using the procedure that was recommended below. Also, as far as bleeding the lines: I had a friend rev the engine up to about 2400 rpm's while I partially unscrewed the temp sending unit. I did this everal times over a four or five minute period. Do people think this was adequate?

 

[John]

waiting

Okay, I ordered an infrared thermometer as Maine Sail recommended me to. While I'm waiting for it to be delivered ($25 online from Cabella's vs. $85 from Napa auto parts), I'll check out the temp gauge using the procedure that was recommended below. Also, as far as bleeding the lines: I had a friend rev the engine up to about 2400 rpm's while I partially unscrewed the temp sending unit. I did this everal times over a four or five minute period. Do people think this was adequate?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Petcock

John, I've been following this over the course of the last week, and haven't checked the C36 'site since I've been traveling. But one thing strikes me as very strange: you don't have a petcock on the top of the thermostat housing. While I have previously mentioned to you that you could "burp" (NOT "bleed" since bleeding is for the fuel line) the freshwater hot water line to the water heater by disconnecting one of the lines and using a funnel to pour distilled water into it to remove the air bubble, I recommend that you determine why you don't have this important feature and work on that while you're at it to get the appropriate fitting with the petcock for the top of the thermostat housing. [You can do a "Search" on the word "burp" on our C34 Message Board and get lots of information there, too. Both our C34 & C36 brethren have learned much from each other over the course of the years because of the similarity of the systems on our boats.]Re: your "burp" method. Only YOU can tell, in response to your "Do people think this is adequate?" Without the petcock you don't have an easier way to do that, but what you describe mimics that functionally. Did you experience air bubbles shooting out, followed by a steady flow of water? If so, once the water flowed, you have cleared the air bubble. That should have done it. Let me know.Glad to hear you have a good source for the IR - can you post a link? The issue is really doing what you have to do in a methodical, investigative manner, step-by-step as Rod has suggested. I also suggest that since you're posting these questions on two different forums, that once you find the answer you report on both or at least link them as I have on some of your past issues. Good luck. You're only a hop-skip-and-a-jump away from us (we're at Grand Marina), hope one of these days to meet you.In addition, with the Catalina Universal engines, in the ten years I have owned Aquavite and been active in our C34 Association, and also learning from the C36 skippers, I have heard of NO clogging issues with exhaust risers. What happens on these boats and with these engines and exhaust systems is that the weak point, which is the weld of the water injection nipple, simply fails over time, They do not, as has been reported repeatedly by Yanmar owners, get clogged up. Yanmar owners are right about the cause of this stoppage, but it just hasn't happened (as far as I know) to the Catalina C34s and C36s. The weld fails, and I've written a Mainsheet Tech Notes article about my personal experience, in addition to many others about this subject.Our experience, John, with the exhaust risers is that with your 325 engine hours, you have at least another 325 to go. Ours failed at 1430 hours. Catalina will provide a replacement if you send them your old one, or have the drawing of your particular arrangement, which has changed over the years. They just don't want to make the wrong one and get stuck with an unhappy customer. If you're concerned about it, take the water injection hose off the exhaust riser, and stick a pencil in it. You can use a mirror to see what's in there. My guess is you'll find nothing. The future lurking problem is the condition of the weld which gets eaten away from the inisde out, you can't see it even if you remove the insulation. So stick it on your Xmas list for 2010.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Petcock

John, I've been following this over the course of the last week, and haven't checked the C36 'site since I've been traveling. But one thing strikes me as very strange: you don't have a petcock on the top of the thermostat housing. While I have previously mentioned to you that you could "burp" (NOT "bleed" since bleeding is for the fuel line) the freshwater hot water line to the water heater by disconnecting one of the lines and using a funnel to pour distilled water into it to remove the air bubble, I recommend that you determine why you don't have this important feature and work on that while you're at it to get the appropriate fitting with the petcock for the top of the thermostat housing. [You can do a "Search" on the word "burp" on our C34 Message Board and get lots of information there, too. Both our C34 & C36 brethren have learned much from each other over the course of the years because of the similarity of the systems on our boats.]Re: your "burp" method. Only YOU can tell, in response to your "Do people think this is adequate?" Without the petcock you don't have an easier way to do that, but what you describe mimics that functionally. Did you experience air bubbles shooting out, followed by a steady flow of water? If so, once the water flowed, you have cleared the air bubble. That should have done it. Let me know.Glad to hear you have a good source for the IR - can you post a link? The issue is really doing what you have to do in a methodical, investigative manner, step-by-step as Rod has suggested. I also suggest that since you're posting these questions on two different forums, that once you find the answer you report on both or at least link them as I have on some of your past issues. Good luck. You're only a hop-skip-and-a-jump away from us (we're at Grand Marina), hope one of these days to meet you.In addition, with the Catalina Universal engines, in the ten years I have owned Aquavite and been active in our C34 Association, and also learning from the C36 skippers, I have heard of NO clogging issues with exhaust risers. What happens on these boats and with these engines and exhaust systems is that the weak point, which is the weld of the water injection nipple, simply fails over time, They do not, as has been reported repeatedly by Yanmar owners, get clogged up. Yanmar owners are right about the cause of this stoppage, but it just hasn't happened (as far as I know) to the Catalina C34s and C36s. The weld fails, and I've written a Mainsheet Tech Notes article about my personal experience, in addition to many others about this subject.Our experience, John, with the exhaust risers is that with your 325 engine hours, you have at least another 325 to go. Ours failed at 1430 hours. Catalina will provide a replacement if you send them your old one, or have the drawing of your particular arrangement, which has changed over the years. They just don't want to make the wrong one and get stuck with an unhappy customer. If you're concerned about it, take the water injection hose off the exhaust riser, and stick a pencil in it. You can use a mirror to see what's in there. My guess is you'll find nothing. The future lurking problem is the condition of the weld which gets eaten away from the inisde out, you can't see it even if you remove the insulation. So stick it on your Xmas list for 2010.

 

[John]

Infrared thermometer

I found the infrared thermometer by simply doing a google search for this item. There were a couple around this same price, but the cheapest was at cabelas.com.As for what's happening on my boat: The whole thing is very strange to me, including the fact that the battery gauge on my steering pedestal apparantly isn't working (it's registering around 16 volts). On my "burping" procedure and the lack of a petcock: Looking at the diagram for my engine, it shows one sending unit (for the alarm) and the petcock. I think what happened was that they installed another sending unit where the petcock used to be. In any case, when I burped it (I'm slowly learning the jargon!), at first some bubbles came out and then a steady stream. (I found it very difficult to remove the hose to get rid of the air in the way Stu recommends, which is why I used my method.)Finally, Stu, if you write me directly at wildcat99@earthlink.net, I'll be happy to send you my phone number and it would be great to arrange to meet up. In fact, I have to go down to my boat this morning to take care of some other things (tighten the packing nut).John

 

[John]

Infrared thermometer

I found the infrared thermometer by simply doing a google search for this item. There were a couple around this same price, but the cheapest was at cabelas.com.As for what's happening on my boat: The whole thing is very strange to me, including the fact that the battery gauge on my steering pedestal apparantly isn't working (it's registering around 16 volts). On my "burping" procedure and the lack of a petcock: Looking at the diagram for my engine, it shows one sending unit (for the alarm) and the petcock. I think what happened was that they installed another sending unit where the petcock used to be. In any case, when I burped it (I'm slowly learning the jargon!), at first some bubbles came out and then a steady stream. (I found it very difficult to remove the hose to get rid of the air in the way Stu recommends, which is why I used my method.)Finally, Stu, if you write me directly at wildcat99@earthlink.net, I'll be happy to send you my phone number and it would be great to arrange to meet up. In fact, I have to go down to my boat this morning to take care of some other things (tighten the packing nut).John

 

[John]

Weirdness

I haven't yet received the infrared thermometer, but what I did today was:I removed the face of the instrument panel on the steering pedestal. My theory had been that water had gotten back there and was causing the gauges to misfunction. Nope, it was dry as a bone. However, with the batteries turned off, the shore power cord disconnected and the panel turned off, the batter gauge registers nearly 12 volts and the temperature gauge registers around 40 degrees (with the engine cold). I checked it with a circuit tester, and there is no circuit flowing to the battery gauge with the batteries turned off or with the key for the panel turned off. Once both of these are turned on, the circuit tester shows a flow. I turned on the engine and let it run for awhile. Again, the temp gauge raun up to about 165 and held steady and no hot water alarm went off (at least not yet).How about this new theory: When I refilled the engine with coolant and tried to burp it, there was a good deal of coolant that ran out at one point. Is it possible that this coolant got into the alternator and is causing some sort of short there? Could this be the reason why the battery gauge registers at around 12 volts when everything is turned off, and with the engine running the needle jumps off the chart? One thing that makes me doubt this is that if there were a short, wouldn't the circuit tester light up even with everything turned off?I'm getting ready to bite the bullet and hire an electrician!

 

[John]

Weirdness

I haven't yet received the infrared thermometer, but what I did today was:I removed the face of the instrument panel on the steering pedestal. My theory had been that water had gotten back there and was causing the gauges to misfunction. Nope, it was dry as a bone. However, with the batteries turned off, the shore power cord disconnected and the panel turned off, the batter gauge registers nearly 12 volts and the temperature gauge registers around 40 degrees (with the engine cold). I checked it with a circuit tester, and there is no circuit flowing to the battery gauge with the batteries turned off or with the key for the panel turned off. Once both of these are turned on, the circuit tester shows a flow. I turned on the engine and let it run for awhile. Again, the temp gauge raun up to about 165 and held steady and no hot water alarm went off (at least not yet).How about this new theory: When I refilled the engine with coolant and tried to burp it, there was a good deal of coolant that ran out at one point. Is it possible that this coolant got into the alternator and is causing some sort of short there? Could this be the reason why the battery gauge registers at around 12 volts when everything is turned off, and with the engine running the needle jumps off the chart? One thing that makes me doubt this is that if there were a short, wouldn't the circuit tester light up even with everything turned off?I'm getting ready to bite the bullet and hire an electrician!