Water or sun damage?

Aug 25, 2019
15
Hunter None Yet North Texas Landlocked
Hi all,

Went to see a boat that I'm thinking about buying and noticed a few spots that I'd like others' opinions on. The broker assures me that there's never been water in the boat, and for the most part, I would agree based on pulling up all of the floor boards and looking around the other parts of the boat, but I'm concerned with a couple of places and am curious what you think.

The other issue is the gelcoat on the deck... its a 23 year old boat and the deck is in rough shape with LOTS of spider cracking. Is it possible to buff through this, or am I looking at a total strip/sand/fair and repaint?

Anyone mind making some comments on the folowing pics?
 

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capta

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Jun 4, 2009
4,907
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
The outside stuff just looks like gel coat degradation. However, the inside lines on the varnish appear to all be about the same height and water damage. Possibly fresh water from filling up while on the hard, but water damage none the less.
 
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Jul 7, 2004
8,481
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
How else does the broker account for the water stains?
Some of those gelcoat spots look like impacts of some sort. For the right sale price you could budget in the deck repairs. It's not going to buff out.
 
Feb 21, 2013
4,638
Hunter 46 Point Richmond, CA
You can refinish the interior wood (do an internet search on "refinishing marine interior wood floors and doors" to find examples on how to do this OR hire a cabinet / floor wood refinisher). You can also remove the rust from the motor mounts with a chemical rust remove and wire brush then apply an anti-corrosion metal paint. Did both to a Hunter 386 and Hunter 46. To repair gel coat spider cracks suggest doing an internet search on "removing spider cracks from gelcoat" to learn how to do that OR hire a marine gelcoat guy.
 
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Jul 7, 2004
8,481
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
That's the difference between a broker and a surveyer. One works for the seller, the other works for the buyer.
 
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Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,182
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Seeing where the color differences are on the panels, the boat would have most likely been totalled if it had been from a sinking to those levels. The rusty motor mount isn't atypical. This looks to me like a boat that had suffered high humidity damage in the interior. The gelcoat will have spiderwebing at that age, although that's quite a bit. All this is well worth a discount to market and you will want a surveyor inspection by one you choose anyway. Good luck and remember that our opinions are worth just what you paid for them.
 
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Feb 21, 2013
4,638
Hunter 46 Point Richmond, CA
Looks in really good shape without water damage. Maybe water damage to the other areas due to water ingress from the companionway from rain and heavy seas spilling water into the cockpit?
 
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Jul 7, 2004
8,481
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
Better get a survey before you sink, pun intended, money into it. You may have a lot of hidden damage. Too bad they don't have boatfax, like carfax. :biggrin:
 
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Jan 1, 2006
7,481
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
What concerns me about the gelcoat cracks is that they are in highly stressed parts of the hull. So the fiberglass under has flexed. No big deal. But if the fiberglass flexed due to a weaked core due to water intrusion it's a big deal. The areas I'm talking about are around the sheet stopper, chain plates, winch mount (That one actually looks like impact), and between the port, and hatch are all areas where water could get in. You need to test for water in the core.
The fading of the interior I think could be sun. If, for instance, the sun shined through a port for hours and days on end in a slip you could get a pattern like that. If water was that high in the boat, it is FUBAR.
 
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capta

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Jun 4, 2009
4,907
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
It looks to me like the salon/galley area has recently been refinished, perhaps to cover the evidence of water intrusion. I'll stick with my rain water ingress theory and fresh water causes dry rot.
However, unlike those above, I see this as a major problem as most of that wood inside is veneer on plywood. The ends of plywood sitting in water, even for a short period, can wick the water up the plywood and begin rotting the layers of wood. Eventually the veneer will begin to come loose and the plywood delaminate.
A surveyor should be able to give you a much more comprehensive response to your questions than we can, just looking at pictures. But be cautious, as there is no such thing as "full disclosure" on boats like there is on houses and if you make a mistake you will have no recourse. Even the surveyor has a "no responsibility" clause in his survey. It's "buyer beware" here.
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,481
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
Always look under the duct tape. Why is the bilge freshly painted? Why is there a new bottom? Newly re-powered in 2002! New sails 2018 (Still can't sail to rating)? 6 sets of sails included. Buyer beware indeed.
 
Jan 11, 2014
12,757
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
You didn't mention the make of the boat. Some models have known issues with gelcoat, the Sabre 362 being one. The original gelcoat was too brittle and applied too thickly. The result is a lot of cosmetic gelcoat cracks.

Most of the cracks I saw in the photos were in areas of a tight radius, this is a difficult area to build. First, fiberglass does not like tight bends and corners this often causes the glass to pull away from the model to make a more gentle bend. This causes small voids to form between the gelcoat and the glass. Eventually the gelcoat cracks and chips out. It is entirely cosmetic as gelcoat is not at all structural. The repair is easy but time consuming; clean out the void, fill with thickened epoxy, fair and paint or gelcoat.

The other big cause of gelcoat cracks also happens in tight corners, gelcoat (and all resins for that matter) are quite brittle unless reinforced with something. When a deck is popped from the mold, it is sometimes uncooperative and excess force is applied to some areas, this stresses the gelcoat and causes cracks to appear down the road. Again, it is a cosmetic issue, not a structural issue.

And then there are the usual chips and dings that occur on a boat over the years, these are the patina of use.

The water stains. The sole outside the head is water damage. Since it is fairly limited in area, my guess is that it came from sloppy showering, wet foulies, and spray from the cockpit. It has a pretty defined shape that would match shower overspray. It also looks to be near the companionway, another innocent source of water.

I'd want to take a good look at the vertical areas that have the whitish cast to them. There is a form of mold/mildew that is white and it doesn't take much to get it to grow. If you look at the boat again, take a damp rag or paper towel and wipe the area in question, if it is mold it will wipe off (this won't cure the problem, just takes away the most visible mold).

Unless the boat has been given an exceptionally long time to dry out, if it has been seriously flooded and left flooded for a while the humidity in the boat will be palpable. The wood will feel damp, the cushions and fabrics will feel damp and smell musty. If you have access to a moisture meter the wood will have a high moisture content.

As @capta mentioned look for evidence of delaminated plywood. If the plywood is wet it will delaminate and eventually need replacing. However, if the boat is not stick built and has a fiberglass pan, the sole is less of a concern as the fiberglass pan is structural and the plywood sole is cosmetic and easier to replace.

I'm not sure what to make of the nav station. It could be the table top was suffering from the patina of use and it was in the process of being refinished, however, if it was being sanded the bulkhead behind it was sanded in a funny manner.

The motor mounts are rusty, however, they are steel and sit in a humid environment. The rest of the motor looks pretty clean. They may need replacing, but I don't think they lend much evidence to the massive flooding theory.

The key here will be finding a surveyor who is competent and one you can trust. Good luck on that.
 
Jan 24, 2017
670
Hunter 34 Toms River Nj
I agree with Rick D look to be mold from poor lay up, humidity can cause mold to form in the places your pics are. I believe it is obviously due to poor ventilation however on poorly vented boat it seems to form on lower areas first.
Most likely due to temperatures are cooler there.

Spider cracks can be fixed however can get expensive if you hire someone to do it. A boat of that age you have to expect spider cracks.

Think you should get boat survey if you plan to buy it.
Nobody hear can document boat condition buy your photos, we can just give our opinions. You know the saying opinions are like a** h**** and everyone has one.
Get it surveyed
 
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Aug 25, 2019
15
Hunter None Yet North Texas Landlocked
Thanks all, the comments above definitely help guide the decision process... I've made an almost offensively low offer on it which of course will be valid after a haul / survey / sea trial.

The boat has been on charter for a while and my guess is that the owner isn't seeing the return on investment for putting it on charter... and now that it's been abused, wants to unload it... we'll see how pressed s/he is to get rid of it.

My initial impressions of the boat were that it was well used... sailed regularly for short charters, but it's sitting between two Beneteaus that probably get first pick on trips. With COVID running rampant, it hasn't moved in a while. The rest of the boat seemed to be OK... just lack of upkeep mostly. And simple things that should have been fixed, just weren't... for example, under the master mattress, the railing that holds up removable plate over one of the tanks had been broken off, so the panel was resting on the tank itself rather than 'floating' above it. So that tank will come out. The owner has specifically NOT done anything to it the last year or two and just knocked the list price down (although not enough) to allow for the next owner to do the repairs themselves instead of 'lipstick on a pig'-ing it himself.

The only real water damage I saw to the wood was above the stove where the microwave should have been... couldn't tell where it had come from, but the front face of the cabinet was totally mush. The cabin itself didn't have any musty smell or other odors (only took off my mask for a little bit though). I didn't get the impression that anything had been replaced per se like @capta suggested. @dlochner, it's a late 90's Hunter.