water in battery and engine bilge

[Syversens]

Hi all, took the weekend to get familar with the boat and its functions (as many as I could manyways) also cleaned up the bilges, they were pretty dirty. I cleaned the whole main bilge but I noticed that the battery and engine didnt drain into the main so I could pump it out. the battery compartment was full all the way to the top with nowhere to go so I used a cup and got rid of most, also the engine right behind it had water. I dont know if it was fresh or salt...Is there a seperate pump for the engine and the little battery compartment on the 361 ? (battery is under the last step walking downRegardsGaute

 

[Mike]

Water under the engine

Gaute, the water under the engine is most likely fresh water. There were some posts regarding that issue on 361 about a month ago. I'll recap some of the probable causes. While there are holes that will allow the water to drain into the bilge the water level has to be very high for that to happen and you end up with residual water between the hull liner and hull. That can lead to some funky odors if it doesn't dry up well enough. I generally use a large sponge to soak it up with and into a bucket. If you have a hand pump you may be able to use it to remove some of the water before using a sponge. Now for some possible causes.1. Your fresh water tank could have a leak. It's located under the aft cabin bunk so the water from it would collect under the engine. Check all you hoses to be sure they're on tight. Use a flashlight to check aound the bottom of the tank for signs of water leaks. If none are found try filling the tank part way and marking the side of the tank with a marker. Check after a day to see if the water level has dropped.2. Your swim platform shower and associated hoses could have a leak. They too will allow water to drain to the same area. Open the corner cockpit locker and shine a flashlight down at the bottom of the locker. Look for signs of water even if they seem to be minor. Also runs your hands under all the hoses and fittings going to the shower hose.3. If you have a dockside water connection like I do it too can leak. Check it the same way you would the swim platform shower. Remember what may looks like even a small amount of water will over time add up.4. If may be salt water coming from the dripless packing gland. If your boat has been recently launched the rubber bellows on the packing gland would have needed to be burped. Just squeeze the rubber bellows until you see water coming out around the shaft. It doesn't take too much to do it. I've had water leak in after having her hauled for maintenance.Good luck.Mike

 

[Stan]

Keep an eye on this

As the previous poster pointed out there is no drain untilit gets pretty high. If it's fresh water it's really not a problem,just use a sponge. If it's saltwater there are two points to watch1) the Volvo dripless seal may need some grease (about once a year)2) on my boat the small fitting that lubricates the seal broke.It's a small hose barb into the shaft log and a leak developedaround the epoxy. Beneteau has sent a new barb and it should behauled out right after the first of the year. Bottomline questions1) fresh or salt 2) where is it coming from

 

[Randall B361]

Another reason

Stan and Mike both make excellent points. I think the reason the pan beneath the engine doesn't drain well is that it's designed to catch fuel or oil that may spill or leak, and prevent it from reaching the bilge and ending up overboard. You could easily drill a limber hole, but I certainly wouldn't.

 

[Syversens]

I'll identify type of water

thanks for all the comments, makes me feel a lot better (and the wife too) I suspect your right about the oil and the bilge Randal and I thought there might be a purpose not having everything go to the same pump....I'll also check the fitting, I think this water was accumulated over some time and we'll be paying closer attention to it, in the back where I shut off the water intake there is no water so I have to open the stairs to look.

 

[Mike]

Check the coolent expansion hose too.

One other potential cause is the coolent expansion hose that runs from the engine to the white expansion tank located in the upper left corner of the engine compartment. I had to replace mine this Summer due to a leak. I have the Westerbeke in my 361 and the hose had begun to crack where it connects to the engine. A small trickle of water would find it way down the side of the engine and eventually make it's way to pan. The water had an odor to it plus some discoloration if that helps. Good luck.

 

[Syversens]

it's salt water

ok, just confirmed that its salt water and its back from when I cleaned it up thogh it seems at the same level, could that indicate anything ? here is a list of what I'll be checking next time, any other points would be appreciated:- Check if water coming from the dripless packing gland. Just squeeze the rubber bellows until you see water coming out around the shaft- the Volvo dripless seal may need some grease. What seal is this ?- check small hose barb into the shaft log and for a leak developingaround the epoxy.- check for coolent expansion hose that runs from the engine to the white expansion tank located in the upper left corner of the engine compartment. trickle of water down the side.

 

[Mike]

Coolant hose

If it's salt water then the coolant expansion hose probably isn't the problem. The hose carries a water/antifreeze mix. I'd start with burping the bellows on the dripless packing gland and check the barb on the hose at the same time. Also make sure the thru hull that leads to it is open or you wont have water pressure in the gland and it will leak on you. Actually I'd check that first. Sorry I forgot about it until just now. Good luck and let us know what you find.Mike

 

[Syversens]

some more details ?

Mike, I'm not sure what you mean around the gland then, I checked around the driveshaft and I did squeese around the seal and water leaked thru but I close all thru hulls on the boat when leaving it so it would have been closed. Can you explain where the dripless packing gland and check the barb are ?Also I got all water pumped out and have a pump at hand to try various places, though it seems that the water always just covers the driveshaft and stops there, thats half way up to the wholes to the bilge. Wonder why it doesnt go higher, thats why I thoght it was connected to the driveshaft...appreciate all the help everyoneGaute

 

[Mike]

Packing gland hru hull

Guate, try leaving the thru hull to the packing gland open when you leave. I tried to close mine when the boat was new and quickly found out that the gland needs the water pressure from that thru hull to keep the water out. What I believe is happening is that the gland is leaking due to inadequate water pressure to the inside of it. What your seeing is the water level balance out once it hits the level of the gland. Of course due to the shape of the bilge it allows water to seep forward towards the engine. If others with dripless packing glands read this and have a better explanation please feel free to comment.Mike

 

[Stan]

Shaft Seal

First let's sync up our terminology. The packing gland orshaft seal is a Volvo Penta dripless shaft seal. It's thebig black thing around the shaft. The only maintenance requiredis periodic 'burping' ie squeezing it to allow some water to escapeand adding some Volvo grease. I bought a small hyperdermic needle(actually a small plunger like device commonly used for expoxy) andinserted the needle between the shaft and the seal to insert thegrease. Works like a charm. The second item is that small thru hullhose barb. The barb is on the 'wet' side of the seal so even if youclose the small thru hull you still have an opening to the ocean aroundthe barb. After drying everything out just put a piece of tissue aroundthe barb above the shaft and see if it gets wet.

 

[Mike]

Shaft seal

Stan, doesn't the thru hull have to be open to provide water pressure to prevent the ingress of water from around the shaft?

 

[Stan]

Shaft Seal

This is from the Beneteau engineers in Marion."The open thru hull provides negative pressure whenthe boat is moving through the water. You have a water circuit from the hose barb behind the sealto the thru hull in front of the seal. At restit doesn't matter." I spent five years closing thatthru hull when I left the boat; only to realize thehose barb was the weak link. When the barb brokeI was truly the little boy with his finger in thedyke. There is no way to close off the ocean. Mypatch was a piece of hose clamped over the shaftlog which stopped the water flow.Stan

 

[Syversens]

Hats off again

Thanks for all the feedback, indeed it was the seal around the shaft. I just checked it today and not a drop in the engine bilge for 5 days (before there were some). At the time I did this Mike proposed to burp it and check a couple of other things, after the burp its now sealed. I also folllowed Mikes thoughts to open the thru hull but based on Stans comments I think I'll close it like before when leaving the boat and open when at sea.....Great advice again guys and wouldnt figure this out without you. Its just so much easier to sleep and take the boat out now that all bilges are clean and dry.Thanks Mike and Stan

 

[Mike]

Thanks Stan

Stan thanks for the feedback. I'll have to check the gland again to see if I get the same reaction. I know the first year I left the boat in the water for the winter I closed the thru hull in the event it froze and ruptured. When I did I immediately had water coming in from around the shaft. Once I reopened it the seepage stopped. This is what I was referring to when I suggested Gaute leave his open. It left me with the impression that the hose fed water pressure to the gland which then acted as a balance against whatever pressure may be introduced from the external portion of the shaft/gland. We're heading to the boat this weekend to celebrate New Years. I'll have to remember to tinker with it.Mike

 

[Mike]

Thanks Gaute

Gaute, thanks for the update, that's good news. Based on both your's and Stan's feedback I will definately double check mine by closing the thru hull. The last time I tinkered with it was 4 years ago so who knows what else I may have done to cause myself problems at the time. Enjoy your 361 she's a great boat. Let us know if you have any other questions. Will do my best to give you accurate info to help.Mike

 

[Syversens]

it's back.....

Had a productive day on the boat and finally started the forever planned toilet replacement. However we motored around a bit (no wind) to remind us that its a boat, not just holding fenders from being wet. When we got back I checked the engine bilge and it had water, full actually and the trip only lasted 1 hour. It was quite a downer for a nice day.... Its been totally dry for the whole week and not a hint of leak.I had the thruhull for the seal open during the trip. When I left I closed it like before. I have not tried the grease in the shaft yet as I thought it was fixed, that is next. Our boat is not a Volvo but a Yanmar, can we get the grease at a local marine shop ? How long does the needle have to be to get into the space, it seems like a inch or two would do it...lastly any other thoughts out there ?Happy new year everyone !

 

[Stan]

Troubleshooting

First let me say I'm envious that you got out on the water. Let's start from the beginning:1) Is it fresh or salt water?2) Is it coming from the engine or the shaft?If it's coming from the shaft the small indentationunder the shaft will fill first and then overflow intothe area under the engine. If it's from the engine thereverse will happen and you should be able to see the problemwhile running the engine at the dock.3) If it's in the shaft area it can come from 3 places: theVolvo shaft seal, the cooling hose barb, or migrating throughthe epoxy keg from the area around the cutlass bearing. I suggestthe following: dry everything out and wrap a piece of paper towelaround the shaft seal extending forward (but not touching) the shaft.If it's the seal, the towel will get wet. If it's not the seal, wrapa paper towel around the hose barb and check it. The last thing to checkis to see if the water is coming through the epoxy. Look through thebig donut hole in your fuel tank and see if the area is dry.All of this can be done at the dock.

 

[Syversens]

its salt water, probably not the shaft

thanks for the reply Stan, I guess having two seasons here in the pacific NW does have a few advantages... Its definately salt water, after some thoughts I doubt this is the shaft leaking. I think it might be the water intake somewhere and that makes it easier to deal with as I'm sure if can be fixed dockside. I'm having an inverter installed along with new batteries at some point but next time I'm there I'll run the engine and see if I can find it, if not its something for the professional... It filled that bilge really quickly though so it sholdn't be hard to find (I hope)thanks !Gaute

 

[Mike]

Shaft seal thru hll

Gaute, I doubled check mine over the weekend and as Stan indicated it doesn't matter if the thru hull is closed like I suggested previously. Thanks Stan! You mentioned you think it might be water intake. Have you checked to make sure you don't have a leak around the cover to the water impeller? If whoever changed it last didn't get the gasket set correctly it could leak. That would give you salt water under the engine as well. I'm thinking that since you sat for a week and didn't get any water. Then you ran the engine and it showed up again. Mike