Washington Post article

vegavrijheid · Feb 10, 2012

Vega not designed for these trips?
Maybe true. Same goes for humans. Important is, this team to make it.
Although I am not the biggest fan of the Vega (self acclaimed by Steve)
in my opinion a Vega promotion arrival should be arranged. This second and next to Matt and Crab ofcourse.
Those in favour should be identified and make plans.
RobKmanOp 10 feb. 2012 om 10:26 heeft "Steve Birch" steve@... het volgende geschreven:

vegavrijheid · Feb 10, 2012

The Vega not designed for these trips? Maybe true. Same goes for humans. Important is, this team to make it.

Althoug I am not the biggest fan of the Vega (self acclaimed by Steve), in my opinion a Vega promotion arrival should be arranged. This second and next to Matt and Crab of course.

Those in favour should be identified and make plans.

RobKman

n6ric · Feb 10, 2012

John,
I plan on sailing my Vega throughout the South Pacific. I'm a warm weather person and have no interest in sailing into the cooler latitudes. I'm not as brave as Matt, pushing a boat that hasn't been properly prepared. Which is why I gutted Blue Max shortly after I bought it and am rebuilding it with my sailing plans in mind. Even things like the chain plates, that show no wear are being replaced. The plan is to end up with a boat I can sail anywhere confidently, even if I steer clear of the more turbulent areas. I'm looking forward to the day she goes back in the water.

Ric
s/v Blue Max
2692
www.ric-maxfield.net

SVFlyAway · Feb 10, 2012

Chainplates? What chainplates?

When Brion Toss put the new rig on my Vega we had a long discussion about
the fitting of the shrouds to the hull. Brion explained to me that the
method used in the Vega, to basically attach them to the deck (with a
backing), was used in more than one boat of the Vega era. He went on to say
that in most boats it led to dismal failures, but that the Vega seemed to
do just fine with that way of doing things and he thought it OK.

But after reading past posts of the buckling (or gap appearing between the
deck and the bulkhead, in both Chuck and Laura's boat, and now Matts), I
have to wonder if the issue isn't somehow related to the shroud attachment
method. Since the load is applied basically to the deck, then transmitted
to the hull with a few close deck bolts, it makes me wonder. All my
previous boats used long chainplates to apply the load directly to the
hull, usually, through a bulkhead or partial bulkhead.

Not that these is anything wrong with the way this is done in the Vega; and
not that I plan on installing proper chainplates (attached to the hull
itself or with bulkhead fittings), but it does cause an person to wonder.
These two Vega's are being asked to stand-up to significant, long term,
loading. Chuck and Laura with their Pacific crossings and now Matt's heroic
endeavor. Is there some relationship?

n6ric · Feb 10, 2012

Chris,

When I say chain plates, I'm referring to the U-Bolts as they were designed. The new ones came from Steve and I will be beefing up the backing plates as well. The way they are designed, they're not transferring all of the stress just to the deck. The backing plate sits under the hull lip so the stress is across both. My boat (I bought it from the son of the original owner) only spent about 3 years total in the water with its mast up. I doubt there is a problem with the old U-Bolts, but I would hate to find out at the wrong time. Besides, now that I have everything out of the way it makes sense to replace them when they're easy to get to. Because of the short period of time that the mast was up, I also don't have a problem with the mast support beam being warped, however, I'm still putting in the stainless steel support.

The one area that would have been an issue were the main bulkheads. They were rotted along the bottom and all the bolts were loose or had fallen out. I used heavier bolts with the new bulkheads and nylon locking nuts. Being the bulkheads transfer the mast support load to the hull, they're a critical piece.

It's slow going, but I'll have no worries about my Vega when she goes back in the water.
Fair winds,

Ric
s/v Blue Max
#2692
www.ric-maxfield.net

stevebirch2002 · Feb 11, 2012

Hi Ric

any chance of some photos ref the chainplate installation and any ideas ref backing plates for them.

Cheers

Steve B

wehpegasus · Feb 11, 2012

Chris Brown, when did Brion Toss make your new rig, and what size wire was used for each of the shrouds and stays? W. Harris City Zoo 1590.

n6ric · Feb 11, 2012

Steve,
I haven't installed them yet. As soon as I install them I'll have plenty of photos to share. I'll let you know when I get started.
Fair Winds,
Ric

vegatern · Feb 12, 2012

In the files section there is an excerpt of an article by Pers Brohal suggesting some small changes that might be made to the boat if it may be put to hard use. One of these is the addition stringers in the forepeak, presumably to stop the hull from flexing. I wonder if this would have prevented the movement described.

It certainly does not seem like a difficult project but
1.) I don't understand how the added stringers run under the water tank without causing a chafe point on the tank, or placing the entire weight of the tank on the stringers. Perhaps filling the space under the tank with foam to support the tank? This will raise the tank above the forepeak "deck". Is that what he intended or do the new stringers stop on the bulkhead aft of the tank?

2.) I also am assuming that when a stringer meets a bulkhead, provided that the overlying cloth and resin is spread out to a larger area, this won't create a "hard spot" in the hull, but I don't know if I'm correct.

In Sidney's newsletters I recall that one owner described adding these stringers from the stem, through the main cabin under the settees, to the stern, and also adding some ring frames of the same plastic pipe in the forepeak. Seems extreme but I wonder if anyone knows what became of that boat. The boat was the Flagfish if I remember correctly.
Craig

dougpol1 · Feb 12, 2012

On 02/12/2012 10:03 AM, Craig wrote:

pjacobs55 · Feb 12, 2012

Has anyone ever experienced "oil canning" of their bow? Looking at the curvature of the hull it looks like it would be pretty hard to do. If the interior bolts and screws are all nice and snug that should hold things pretty rigid. I wonder if it would be more likely to occur in an overloaded boat?

I'm having trouble imagining hearing an almighty "boink" up forward, and watching the lid blow right off the V-berth. It's just not very "Vega" !

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

pelagicasd · Feb 12, 2012

When I first got Lyric she had stress cracks in the gelcoat up by the bow. I replaced the loose nuts on the forward bulkhead with nylocks. Used a dremel tool to groove the cracks and filled same with an epoxy/cabosil mix. Never had another problem. wALT
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
From: peter@...
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 17:02:06 +0000
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Hull Reinforcements

Has anyone ever experienced "oil canning" of their bow? Looking at the curvature of the hull it looks like it would be pretty hard to do. If the interior bolts and screws are all nice and snug that should hold things pretty rigid. I wonder if it would be more likely to occur in an overloaded boat?
I'm having trouble imagining hearing an almighty "boink" up forward, and watching the lid blow right off the V-berth. It's just not very "Vega" !
Peter

#1331 'Sin Tacha'

3

brockhaus77 · Feb 12, 2012

Does anyone have an approximate guess around what time (even what month) Matt might be coming back to the Chesapeake Bay? I was thinking it would be real nice to have a little flotilla of Vega's greet him at the mouth of the Bay when he makes it there, but of course those things are very hard to plan...

TJBurkett · Feb 14, 2012

My guess is that best case he's back sometime around the second to third week of April.

bobnlesafloat · Feb 15, 2012

...ever experienced "oil canning" of their bow... No

However, there is/was an upgrade proposed by per Brohal for those Vegas planning extended offshore voyages wherein you glassed lengths of (1/2"?) plastic pipe along the insides of the hull, between bow and the main bulkhead, somewhere about the waterline. Sorry I can't be any more specific, but I passed on the notes I had when I sold Spring Fever; Steve Birch probably has the necessary info though.

Bob

jdnalaska · Jun 5, 2012

I'm very interested in this as I'm rebuilding my boat. It is now bare hull and deck only. I'm assumming Matt's cabin lift is related to chain plate stress. Of course there is the famous mast compression issue. Would it work to address both (after beefing up the bulkhead and beam) to put a flange on the inside of the cabin roof and thru bolt the mast support beam to this? Mast support solutions depend on compression, but a flange would make the cross section of the boat beneath the mast (including the bulkhead) very rigid and address forces in all directions. Maybe this is not totally a plus.

John

tim_klynn · Jun 5, 2012

If I had extra time, I've thought about adding a second fiberglass flange to the opposite sides of the bulkhead along the hull sides and through bolting the bulkheads through both flanges with larger bolts.
My concern with this it that it might cause the bulkhead to rot more quickly where it is buried in the flanges, but it would probably help keep the bulk head from moving as much while still allowing some flexing.I don't know if adding a fiberglass flange to the cabin roof above the bulkhead/mast beam under the mast would work or not. The deck is cored there and I think the inside skin is thin.
It may also be a good thing to have some movement there as well, probably someone that knows a lot more about this me will let you know. I will probably make the time to add a stainless compression beam under the mast with flanges top and bottom (to create a void for wiring and allow air circulation as well as stiffening the beam).
The wood beam that is in there now has some hard putty (probably thickened fiberglass resin) above the beam to fill between the beam and cabin roof. The putty is cracked along either the cabin roof or the beam (I forget which)
so there may have been movement in that area at one time. I'm not so sure if bolting the mast base to the ss flange is a good idea. The fiberglass flanges are usually put in with a 45 degree foam chamfer to allow for some flexing of the hull.

-Tim
________________________________
From: John jdnalaska@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 2:56 PM
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Washington Post article

I'm very interested in this as I'm rebuilding my boat. It is now bare hull and deck only. I'm assumming Matt's cabin lift is related to chain plate stress. Of course there is the famous mast compression issue. Would it work to address both (after beefing up the bulkhead and beam) to put a flange on the inside of the cabin roof and thru bolt the mast support beam to this? Mast support solutions depend on compression, but a flange would make the cross section of the boat beneath the mast (including the bulkhead) very rigid and address forces in all directions. Maybe this is not totally a plus.

John

vegatern · Jun 5, 2012

I expect there will be more information when Matt finishes his book, but I suspect that the bulkhead and hull worked, and the bolts that hold the flange tight to the bulkhead wore away at the wood, or the bolts themselves loosened. They work loose on my boat and I don't go anywhere. I haven't been inside many fiberglass boats but have been told that in others the hull flange and bulkhead are glassed together as one unit. That could be a worth while improvement and one that I have considered doing. I anticipate sanding off the finish on the wood and glassing over a foam fillet, then re-bolting through the new glass, (well, perhaps someday). A ring frame in the fore peak and a couple of stringers should stiffen the hull. Pers Brohall suggested as much in an article he wrote about taking the boat offshore. I haven't seen the entire article but a segment is in the files section. Perhaps someone has the rest available.

Craig Tern 1519

pjacobs55 · Jun 6, 2012

One has to look at the usage the boat will get. Most Vegas have stood up very well over the years, with only the mast beam reinforced.

My Ballad (also made by Albin) has the bulkheads bolted to the flanges with 10mm (approx. 3/8") nuts, bolts, and washers. Increasing the diameter of the bolts in the Vega would help to better distribute the loads supported by the bulkheads, and would provide a tight fit for the new bolt in the new hole. A larger (fender) washer on the plywood side would help, too.

After years of being loose the original small Vega bolts have probably elongated the holes, and tightening them will not help stiffen things up.

I'd guess that there're a lot of Vegas sailing around out there with loose bulkhead bolts!

A fix for deck flex at the chainplates might be to put external strap-type chainpltes bolted to the ouside of the hull, with some added reinforcement on the inside.

Or, maybe a Westsail 32 would be the perfect solution ;-)

Just my opinions .....
Peter
www.sintacha.com

pjacobs55 · Jun 6, 2012

Remember, the hull construction is solid fiberglass, but the cabin tops and decks are sandwich core construction with relatively thin skins. Attaching a flange to the inside of the cabin top skin might not be a good idea.

Peter
www.sintacha.com