Was i in the wrong?.......

[GuyT]

Tom if you could take a survey

that shows the percentage of power boaters who know the "stand on", "give way" rules, I'm thinking that it would be pathetic (around 50 percent).Just last year NJ boaters had to take a Safe Boating Course to be allowed to operate their boats legally. Its a step in the right direction.Considering that many don't know the rules, you just have to be able to give way whenever! I agree with you. Its a shame, but its the only way to ensure you stay on the top side of Davie Jones's locker.

 

[Nice N Easy]

Rules

I am in total agreement with Tom on this. It doesn't matter who is stand on, has the right of way or whatever you want to call it,if both don't know and abide by the rules. Most do not know, ignore or don't care about the rules. And some are too drunk to pay any attention. I am familiar with this channel, and while I do agree that you have every right to sail in or out of it to your hearts content, and from what I can understand you were the stand on vessel. Personally I never ever use sails only in any inlet, or narrow channel, and I prefer to get the hell out of the way, regardless of whether or not I am the stand on or give way vessel. In my humble opinion it is a little bit rude, to be tacking back and forth across a channel that you are sharing with other boats, even though you are perfectly within your rights. I really don't care much about being right, as long as I don't end up swimming. I have been doing this long enough that it doesn't bother me in the least, and I just smile to myself and consider the lack of intelligence of the other skipper. I do realized that most sailors are more aware of and abide by the rules of the road than the power boaters out there. But as well as being in the right, think about consideration for those who have no idea about how a sailboat works, and when you tack all they see is you changing course, possibly across their bow, while running up a channel.

 

[Ross]

I encountered a sailing school boat tacking

back and forth across the channel near Havre de Grace a couple of years ago. Now this is a fair size piece of water perhaps 10 square miles and more than a half mile wide where we almost met. He had crossed my bow a couple of hundred yards out, did a 180 turn and came back. This time on a collision course with me. The instructor had 3 or 4 people in the boat. I let them come without a sound from me. (I was motoring) When it was clear that if I held my course that I would "T" bone them I put the helm down and passed their stern. When I got home I e-mailed the school and told them that I while realized that the instructor had every "right" to sail where he pleased, I thought that he was setting a bad example for the student. I never heard from the sailing school but they do use a different section of the pond that is less congested.

 

[Jim11228]

Ross:

You were under power. PERIOD!!

 

[Ross]

Jim , you are absolutely correct! However teaching

people to sail in a congested channel is bad manners at best when there is open water within a half mile. I acknowledged then and now that I was under power and a giveway vessel. But just as pedestrians have the right of way at crosswalks, they are fools, and often dead fools, if they don't check traffic before they step off the curb.

 

[Jim11228]

Ross

I agree with you, but as this conversation has pointed out, you as the stand-on vessel, are obligated ( and expected} to hold your course. Hopefully, this is what that instructor was teaching his students. Good discussion!

 

[Nice N Easy]

A question for Jim

Jim, being of the curious kind, and kind of liking to stir the pot from time to time I have but one question. Lets assume that you are the stand on vessel, running up a channel, and you find yourself on a collision course with a boat which is by law the give way vessel. Maybe this guy is drunk, maybe he has no clue as to any rules of the road, but whatever the reason it becomes obvious he is not going to give way to you. So how close do you get to a collision before you bear off, or do you just T bone the guy and then after you get dried off explain that you were the stand on vessel, and obligated to maintain your course.

 

[CharlieCobra]

Jim, ya got your last post backwards I believe.

nm

 

[Stu Jackson]

This could continue until the cows come home

but daylight lasts so long...It seems the basic issue is a choice between:1. You maintain the course being careful to check that the other guy is aware of you and acts properly to avoid. [Sometimes, the give way vessel doesn't and you have to dodge]OR2. The selection of choice becomes "the other guy doesn't ever know dip, so I avoid him" [People who do know the rules get confused]Not unreasonable choices.A point could be made, however, that WHEN you make this choice is JUST as important as making it to begin with.For #1, the closer you get, the harder it is to implement #2. Repeat: [People who DO know the rules get confused]Many times we've had disagreements on our boat because I continue on starboard when others are on port - but always give us enough leeway (no pun intended) to dodge if necessary. When on port tack, I maintain vigilance - neither tack enables any reduction of lookout and starboard tack doesn't mean "I win."Motorboats? I avoid like the plague.

 

[Jim]

Under sail you are the stand on boat under sail, if the other boat is under power. That does not mean you don't have to yield the right of way to aviod a collusion. There are a lot of jerks out there and as the price of fuel goes up they don't want to alter course thereby waste fuel.You have to respect their point of view. Buy oil stocks to make money off their stupid position! I hope they drive SUVs too! Let them make you rich!

 

[Joe]

use the air horn.....

...rather than the radio.... I haven't seen anyone mention using the the air horn to notify your intentions. I keep mine handy whenever I'm in a channel or other congested area. Never assume the other guy sees you or knows what you are going to do... get his attention first, then you can communicate.

 

[Bay Sailor]

Five Short Blasts

Most of the time when I'm sailing I try to predict what other boaters are doing and try to accommodate them, despite COLREGs. An exception to this are some dragon boat racers who like to race me when I'm raising sails and then cut across my bow. They just ignore me when I talk to them so I've started giving them 5 short blasts of my air horn. When they are 15-20 feet away, it is loud. Works every time.

 

[Ross]

Read my first post. as an alternative to running

the bastard down five short whistles is standard.

 

[higgs]

From what I am hearing...

...you guys pay little attention to the "rules of the road" and just figure you have to stay out of everyone else's way because everyone out there, except you, is an idiot.

 

[Nice N Easy]

My point here was

My points on this discussion were these. And I hope I haven't offended any one. First I think that although totally within your rights, it seems a little bit inconsiderate to be sailing up a channel that has other boat traffic, if you have to tack back and forth across said channel. For example, a trawler that has no idea of the colregs, has had a few, and really doesn't give a damn about sail boats, and knows even less about how they work, is going to think you are being an a&* when you tack across in front of him. He doesn't know or care that you are a stand on vessel, he just knows that you have changed course and are crossing in front of him. Or he knows the regs and thinks you are just trying to piss him off because you have the right under the regs.Second, if you are on a collision course, why wait until you are up close and personal before making a course change. If you bear off, early on, it makes your moves and intentions perfectly clear. If you wait till the last minute, thinking that the other boat is give way, and he doesn't know this little fact, then you both turn off in the same direction, I sure hope you can swim. I think it is safe to assume that some of you have not met a shrimp boat, that is running on auto pilot, with no one even in the wheel house, or close to a radio. He may be dragging nets, or may be out on deck culling the catch, but one thing for sure, if you don't get out of the way, you will get run over. So put common sense and courtesy right up there with the regs.

 

[JungleJetJock]

higgs

You are exactly right. Everyone out there, except me, is an idiot!

 

[Ctskip]

It kinda like

doing the speed limit in the fast lane. Right or wrong is not the question. I'd rather be safe than dead. Move over and let the speeders go by. Tacking in a narrow channel is not very courteous if you ask me. If it must be done ,tack one more time, to avoid ANY confrontation.  Keep it up, Ctskip

 

[Rick Webb]

NOT the Same Thing

Impeading the traffic flow in the passing lane is wrong no matter how fast you are going. There must be a special place in hell that folks in hell are afraid of for those who sit in the left lane.

 

[filthy liberal scum]

somethings missing here!

some folks are dissing him because he was sailing in a narrow channel. BS. 300' is hardly a narrow channel. maybe it is if your a 900' long ship that's 150'wide. we're talking about a sailboat that's probably in the realm of 30' with a beam of maybe 11' wide and a power boat that's about the same. lets see now, if they were beam to beam that's roughly 25' taken up in a 300' wide channel. that's hardly 2 18 wheelers side by side in a 22' wide construction zone doing 60 plus mph. there was plenty of space for him to be sailing. And I don't consider it to be rude to be sailing in such a wide channel. i consider it rude that the pb thought he needed the whole freaking 300' to pass.I consider a lot of stinkpotters that consider ragboaters a pain in their arse to be ludicrous. I'm sure a lot of them would just love it if we all put our sailboats away and gave all the water to them, just as i would be happy to see $5/gal fuel to keep them off the water.S/V Que Pasa?

 

[MoonSailer]

Legal but wrong??

This thread seems to agree that the sailboat was doing the legally correct thing. But somehow it is turning into a statement that sailers don't have the right to sail. That somehow a stinkpot has a right to run WOT everywhere and everyone must get out of their way. Is this the consensus?? that we can sail only when we don't imped a stinkpot???? I am all for being nice but I don't think that a sailer has an obligation to allow a stinkpot to operate WOT at all times. And if I want to sail up a channel and the traffic is light why should a stinkpots desire to go up that channel WOT more important than my desire to sail quietly up that same channel??? Tacking is something that sailers do!!! Personally I wouldn't want to beat up a narrow channel with the wind on my nose, But if I can go up a channel close hauled and need to tack once or twice I might do it. That gives me more sailing time and less motoring time. As for Ross if you are motoring you are a stinkpot and have to give way to sailboats.  Sailing yesterday I was really impressed by a very courteous stinkpot. Even though we were on the open lake he throttled back as he was passing us and passed well off to our port. He was throwing up some big waves but I didn't expect him to slow down in the open lake. On the other hand I have had stinkpots pass at WOT in narrow dug sections of the ICW...in the cut between Mobile and Perdido bays. That cut is no where near 300'..we were motoring at the time. My wife was cooking lunch down below and was almost scalded.