Wanting to add inboard track for headsail leads.

[Scott]

The track position set-up for the boat seems awkward. As the photo shows, for a 150 deck sweeping genny, the sheets want to be to the inside of the lifelines, for close haul, but outside for any other point of sail. Is it feasible to add a track to the inside?

For the 110 jib, the jib sheets only work to the outside of the lifelines as the clew is high above.

 

[Scott]

Stbd tack leads are set for outside ...

Yesterday we sailed in winds that fluctuated from about 5 knots to 12 knots apparent. For sailing upwind, I set the port tack leads for the clew inside the lifelines and the stbd tack leads outside the lifelines. The position of the leads is admittedly forward (I didn't re-adjust after we reached downwind). But the loose foot shows the dilemma.

 

[Mark]

lifelines

Can you run the upper lifeline at the bow down to the attachment point of the lower lifeline? That might let you get the sail on the outside of the stantions and lifelines.

 

[Benny]

Great advise from Mark, you need to make an opening

for the genoa to fly outside the lifelines. Don't see a need for inside tracks and the nuisance of having to re-route the sheets when changing point of sail. An option would be to recut the genoa.

 

[Brian M H23]

More hoist?

Is there any chance you could add a tack pennant and hoist the sail higher? This will help immensely. While off the wind though, it's always an issue.

 

[Scott]

Basically, I am interested in improving ...

the ability to point. As you can see, we have a nice wide deck but the track is to the outside of the toe rail. There is a lot of room between the leech and the spreader and it seems like we could improve pointing by several degrees. It seems like I need the inside track to be as far back as the coaming, so if I install it along the edge of the coaming, does the track become a trip nuisance when it is forward of the coaming (see how the coaming curves inboard toward the coach)?

I like Mark's idea, but I would need to re-cut the lifeline to a shorter length. Benny, the sail was made the way I wanted it. I said I wanted a deck sweeper and that was before I knew how much it would impair my vision. Brian, no room up top for this mast head rig, that's for sure.

 

[Scott]

On another train of thought ...

The loose foot of my sail seems to indicate the fairleads are too forward. This should cause the foot to luff ahead of the head, no? Yet this photo of the stbd tack indicates the top telltale breaking first, so is this consistent?

 

[Scott]

Well that wasn't the photo I intended ...

that one shows the top telltale streaming. THIS one shows the top breaking ...

 

[Scott]

This port tack seems to show the leach hooking ...

no? Move the lead aft for more twist? Notice the middle telltale lifting.


Will I get better shape of the headsail with inboard leads?

Apparent wind was no more than about 11 knots for a few of these pictures.

 

[S. Sauer]

High Pointing

Scott,
No info shows up on you or your boat so I guess you aren't registered in this forum; it would be helpfull to have some background on the boat and your experience level.
None-the-less I went back to yuor older postings and found you may be sailing a shoal draft Starwind 27. I don't know that you want to invest a lot of time or money in trying to point higher with a shoal dtaft boat.

Try this first: take some sag out of your headstay by tightening the backstay.
Leave the sheet leads inside the life lines and move the cars back slightly to tension the foot of the sail. Check your telltales to see if you can find the position where thay all are flowing back; maybe the top is lifting up to 45 degrees. Check your course on both tacks to see what your tacking angle is and sail against another similar boat to see how you are pointing.

Once you've got everything as good as you can get it, tie a second Genoa sheet with a bowline to the clew and have someone pull it inwards; this is known as a barber hauler and closes the slot, temporarily doing the same thing as an expensive inside track installation. If it works for you then you may want to go to a permanent inside track installation, nearer the base of the cabintop. Take a look at the mid 80's Hunter 28.5 that has this as a standard set up on both shoal draft and deep keel boats, but your beam may not be as wide.
I could see doing this only if you were interested in competative racing.

There is a lot more to high pointing; including the condition of the keel and bottom surfaces (EXTRA DRAG) and the condition of both the main and Genoa sails. You should be able to get a flat entry and may need to flatten the main (hand tight main halyard; max outhaul, and maybe a backstay adjuster to flatten the main) as you bring in the Genoa lead closer so as not to backwind.

 

[Stu Jackson]

An easy Barber haul method (a bit o'cheating)

is to use the lazty sheet and tighten it up. Works with 110 and smaller headsails, useless in bigger jibs and genoas.

 

[CalebD]

Scott is registered in this forum but

never reviewed his own boat model so it was a lucky guess that he posted something about his model boat that gave it away.
I am not sure if I can add anything more than what others have suggested but I feel compelled to try.
Since you have a Starwind 27'which has a shoal draft keel I suggest that you should be happy with an upwind performance of 45 degrees. If your boat had a fin keel and a spade rudder then it might be a different story. Boats with this kind of hull configuration can point up significantly higher than 45 degrees.
I know this because I have a 1967 Tartan 27' which has basically a full keel (3'6") with a centerboard that goes down to 6'. We race our boat on the Hudson in PHRF corrected races (our boat gets a tub rating of 240). Most of the newer fin keel boats kill us on the upwind legs of the race as they can always point higher up than we can even with the board down or pulled up slightly so it is more aft.
I have thought quite a bit about this same question of an extra set of tracks that are more inboard which is why I too am interested in your question and OP. One problem with installing 'extra' stuff on your boat is that the designers thought pretty long and hard about the final sail configuration. If you pull the jibsheets more inboard wont your genoa get closer to your shrouds? This will also close up 'the slot' a bit which may be a beneficial thing in some higher wind conditions but do you less good in 'normal' winds. The further inboard the genoa is set the more likely it will luff your main sail too. Do you have a traveller?
Personally, I like the Barber Hauler idea the best. It is essentially a spinnaker 'twing' but used on the jib sheet (IIRC). I just haven't quite figured out the hardware I need to try this out on my boat for both tacks without adding a second winch on the doghouse roof so I can use a Barber Hauler on both tacks.
We have a roller furler on our forestay and thus our headsail rides a little higher than your hanked on jib (our rig is also masthead rather than partial). We used to have a 183% genny (don't ask) that was great and rode outside the lifelines but totally obstructed the view to leeward. This sail also rode on and could chafe on the lifeline(s). We now have a newer 150% that works quite a well and allows more room to see underneath and rides just above the lifelines. I think Benny's idea of re-cutting the sail with the foot rising a bit higher is worth thinking about as well.
Good luck with this.

 

[Scott]

Not many (if any) 27' sail boats are as beamy ...

as our Starwind. The Precision is, because it is basically the same design. Our beam is 9'8". Caleb, there is plenty of room to bring the track inboard. Looking at the photos, you can see that there is far more than a foot of space between the end of the spreader and the sail. Also, the shroud fittings are inboard next to the sides of the cabin and there is a wide deck for a 27' boat.

I have registered and posted a review of our Starboard 27 and did comment pretty extensively on the pointing ability and the factors that influence it, namely the shoal draft and the track position. I did the review recently, but my profile was done a long time ago and seems to have been lost when there were some glitches in the system.

Unfortunately, the marina where I winter the boat will not allow ANY bottom work other than pressure washing. I suppose they figure that if anybody wants to paint the bottom, they can trailer the boat to a location where it can be done, but I can't without some significant expense and this is the only marina on the lake that can actually lif our boat out of the water! I was able to convince them to allow me to spread some tarps down and scrape the bottom with a scraper, but they will not allow me to use a sander, nor will they do it even if I wanted to hire them to do it. I guess that is because we are on a fresh water lake. I scrub the bottom with a brush to clean off algae growth, but it is not too bad on our lake. I can keep it clean with minimal maintenance, but the bottom paint job that came with the boat is rough and it has to be a hard paint because it ain't coming off. I was able to get flaking and loose paint off when I scraped it the one time, but that is all and it still has a fairly thick layer of paint on it after several years. When I move the boat, the first task I am going to do is remove the paint completely to the gel coat and start fresh.

I would like to improve this boat for racing and it does have a decent rating (179, I believe) for a boat of this size, but there is no urgency because no cruising sail boats race on our lake (LOTS of racing on one-designs like Stars, Thistles, E Scows and catamarans) and my wife doesn't appear to be interested. I would add all the appurtenances in a heart beat. I also want to add rigging for a spinnaker or possibly an extendable bow sprit for a cruising chute (alternatively). We would need to move the boat before this becomes necessary, but I could add an inboard track. We do a LOT of tacking! It is true, though, that our upwind sailing gets us upwind quickly and then we are headed downwind, so the adjustments from inboard track to outboard track could get to be a nuisance.

 

[TomD]

Scott, I would do it....

It is very easy to install inboard tracks. Just drill it, seal it up and bolt them down. Especially if you don't have any kind of headliner inside. The inboard tracks will be very effective in increasing your ability to point. On the issue of reaching, we use a barber hauler, sometimes referred to as a "short sheet", and we run it through a car on the outboard track to the outside of the lifelines. This is a temporary sheet so when we are close hauled we move to the permanent inboard sheet and when we bear off we attach the short sheet. The location of the car on the broader angle will be more forward then the inboard car.

That being said, don't fall into the trap that a lot of drivers fall into when trying to increase their pointing ability. That is to tighten everything up and point the boat as high as the tell tales will let you and watch everyone pass you by. Boatspeed is the most important thing to remember when pointing. The boat must always be going through the water as fast as possible. This speed creates lift for the keel and, especially on a shoal draft boat, that keel always needs to be working. Once you slow down, your tell tales may still tell you everything is fine, but you will be going sideways.

Good luck.