I have owned Hobies and raced for years on Lake Erie. My son and I bought a Humter 1984 model 34. What type of races are available and is there a handicap system? Our home port is in Kemah, Texas. We are not out for the olympics but racing was the best way for me to learn how to handle my hobie so I figure racing could help us with our new boat. Any help or pointing in the right direction would help. If you think I am crazy to want to race the 34 let me know why?
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
A
Alan
No your not crazy!!
A Hunter 34 is a good boat and if set up properly can be very fast. #1, get rid of ALL excess weight. Make 2 piles, one for gear you don't need the other for gear you do. Take half of the needed gear add it to the don't need and dump it. #2, put a real race bottom on the boat. When you run your fingers across the finished bottom it should feel like glass. #3, need a good set of racing sails. Kevlar/mylar are a must have (the other guys have them) and you cannot win without them. Then go kick some ass!!
A Hunter 34 is a good boat and if set up properly can be very fast. #1, get rid of ALL excess weight. Make 2 piles, one for gear you don't need the other for gear you do. Take half of the needed gear add it to the don't need and dump it. #2, put a real race bottom on the boat. When you run your fingers across the finished bottom it should feel like glass. #3, need a good set of racing sails. Kevlar/mylar are a must have (the other guys have them) and you cannot win without them. Then go kick some ass!!
C
Cliff Ruckstuhl
2nd to what Alan Said
The 34 is a great boat if you go to Practial Sailor they have a review of the boat and it mentions it being a great light air boat. We raced against one on Lake Erie called Paragon. They were very tough and at time when we were sitting still in our 28.5 just floating because of no air they rolled right past us. Do all of what Alan said and to be competitive new sails will be a must. Having saild on Lake Erie you should know about light air and chop. As you know if you look up the fleet and all you see are Kevler,Mylar sail's then you need to join them to sail with them. The Racing forum here is good for info but Alan and I seem to be the ones that answer most of the time. Cliff H 28.5 "Red Dog"
The 34 is a great boat if you go to Practial Sailor they have a review of the boat and it mentions it being a great light air boat. We raced against one on Lake Erie called Paragon. They were very tough and at time when we were sitting still in our 28.5 just floating because of no air they rolled right past us. Do all of what Alan said and to be competitive new sails will be a must. Having saild on Lake Erie you should know about light air and chop. As you know if you look up the fleet and all you see are Kevler,Mylar sail's then you need to join them to sail with them. The Racing forum here is good for info but Alan and I seem to be the ones that answer most of the time. Cliff H 28.5 "Red Dog"
S
Stu Sauer
Hunter 34 Set Up
Cliff and Allen are pointing you in the right direction as far as taking excess weight off the boat ; then boat bottom preparation and good sails being #1 and #2, add a folding prop as #3. Get some help with setting up your mast correctly, hopefully from the sailmaker who measures the boat for your sails. Mast set-up will be different for shoal draft vs deep draft. Serrious bottom prep includes fairing in the hull to keel joint and thru hulls as well as using a hard finish racing paint wetsanded to perfection.
Cliff and Allen are pointing you in the right direction as far as taking excess weight off the boat ; then boat bottom preparation and good sails being #1 and #2, add a folding prop as #3. Get some help with setting up your mast correctly, hopefully from the sailmaker who measures the boat for your sails. Mast set-up will be different for shoal draft vs deep draft. Serrious bottom prep includes fairing in the hull to keel joint and thru hulls as well as using a hard finish racing paint wetsanded to perfection.
A
Alan
Re: number order
Guys, I listed the order in terms of cost ($). As things get more expensive, people get a little twitchy about spending the money. Taking off weight costs nothing, bottom work is labor intensive but not very costly. Sails are the biggest expense of dollars out. If listed in terms of boat speed gain, then reverse the numbers.
Guys, I listed the order in terms of cost ($). As things get more expensive, people get a little twitchy about spending the money. Taking off weight costs nothing, bottom work is labor intensive but not very costly. Sails are the biggest expense of dollars out. If listed in terms of boat speed gain, then reverse the numbers.
T
Tim
Racing
All those responses are good, especially to be competitive. However, the first thing to do is check out your local racing venue. Your area has alot of racing and varies from true cruising to top end racing. Getting to know your boat and getting a feel for sailing it, and getting a crew together is most important. Yes, A good bottom and good sails, and getting rid of weight are all important, but if you don't know your boat and you don't have a good crew, you may be putting the cart before the horse. You may want to talk to Bob, Matt, or Brant at Doyle Sails in Seabrook. They are all good guys and should be able to offer some sage advice about your local sailing scene before you spend alot of money. Racing is a good way to learn your boat and how to handle her, and have some fun at the same time. Once you are comfortable with the boat and crew, then invest in being competitve.
All those responses are good, especially to be competitive. However, the first thing to do is check out your local racing venue. Your area has alot of racing and varies from true cruising to top end racing. Getting to know your boat and getting a feel for sailing it, and getting a crew together is most important. Yes, A good bottom and good sails, and getting rid of weight are all important, but if you don't know your boat and you don't have a good crew, you may be putting the cart before the horse. You may want to talk to Bob, Matt, or Brant at Doyle Sails in Seabrook. They are all good guys and should be able to offer some sage advice about your local sailing scene before you spend alot of money. Racing is a good way to learn your boat and how to handle her, and have some fun at the same time. Once you are comfortable with the boat and crew, then invest in being competitve.
A
Alan
Na Tim, Must disagree. *sry
The stuff pointed out is a MUST do to be competitive. Racing and getting your butt kicked is no fun (its demoralizing). Besides, once you get the new sails and new bottom the tactics change and you have to relearn how to sail the boat because the sailing characteristics are all going to change. The choice really needs to be made up front. Either you're going to learn racing and do it well or don't go there. If the fleet you are racing in is all cruisers you will learn nothing in beating them. If, however, they are racers they already have the go fast stuff and you stand no chance unless you level the playing field.
The stuff pointed out is a MUST do to be competitive. Racing and getting your butt kicked is no fun (its demoralizing). Besides, once you get the new sails and new bottom the tactics change and you have to relearn how to sail the boat because the sailing characteristics are all going to change. The choice really needs to be made up front. Either you're going to learn racing and do it well or don't go there. If the fleet you are racing in is all cruisers you will learn nothing in beating them. If, however, they are racers they already have the go fast stuff and you stand no chance unless you level the playing field.
C
Cliff Ruckstuhl
2nd that, Alan
Whats the point in racing if you know from the start you are going to be in the back of the fleet. How can you get better if you are not mixing it up with the fleet and working on boat speed with old sail's Really no point in it if you are looking at it as "Were gonna get em Next year" Can't really learn much when your not in the race from the begining. Getting the boat up to speed with all we have mentioned is 1st on the list. I do understand that going out and dropping $6K in new racing sail's might not happen. But with a program and dedacation (Spell) in place and a plan are the key factor's. Doing the bottom is labor intensive not so much on the $$ side if it. A fast bottom can be had for under $300.00. Sanding, fairing & painting. Folding props pop up all the time on HOW and other places. Sail's are another part of it. New sail's are faster but a trip to the loft and having the sail's recut or maybe a new one this year and save for one next year. On the 34 a new 155 would do wonders for the boat. Used racing sail's are out ther and some good deal's can be had just need to find them. But back to the question of racing the 34. It is a great boat and can be a PHRF Killer in it's class. Quote from Practical sailor in 7-12 knots wind speed the boat is practically unbeatable. Rates a 135 PHRF and is faster then most other boats in her class. So the 34 can be a very good boat and will do well when race ready. Biggest part of it is budget and wether you want to be the boat to beat or be the boat that get's beat? I prefer to be the 1st part. Cliff H 28.5 "Red Dog"
Whats the point in racing if you know from the start you are going to be in the back of the fleet. How can you get better if you are not mixing it up with the fleet and working on boat speed with old sail's Really no point in it if you are looking at it as "Were gonna get em Next year" Can't really learn much when your not in the race from the begining. Getting the boat up to speed with all we have mentioned is 1st on the list. I do understand that going out and dropping $6K in new racing sail's might not happen. But with a program and dedacation (Spell) in place and a plan are the key factor's. Doing the bottom is labor intensive not so much on the $$ side if it. A fast bottom can be had for under $300.00. Sanding, fairing & painting. Folding props pop up all the time on HOW and other places. Sail's are another part of it. New sail's are faster but a trip to the loft and having the sail's recut or maybe a new one this year and save for one next year. On the 34 a new 155 would do wonders for the boat. Used racing sail's are out ther and some good deal's can be had just need to find them. But back to the question of racing the 34. It is a great boat and can be a PHRF Killer in it's class. Quote from Practical sailor in 7-12 knots wind speed the boat is practically unbeatable. Rates a 135 PHRF and is faster then most other boats in her class. So the 34 can be a very good boat and will do well when race ready. Biggest part of it is budget and wether you want to be the boat to beat or be the boat that get's beat? I prefer to be the 1st part. Cliff H 28.5 "Red Dog"
T
Tim
Spending
You guys are the best. The industry loves your attitude on spending to win. And, I agree with all the recommendations you've mentioned, when you are ready to seriously compete. However, I have seen many people drop a load on sails and gear before even having a grasp on how to start much less which way to go, or even knowing the rules. They go out foul others and get protested, tear up their new sails (Sailmakers love that too), and even without a catastrophe, still end up dead last. After all, fast in the wrong direction is just as discouraging. My advice is still to get into your local sailing scene, in a class of boats similar in sailing ability, and have some fun, learn the boat, teach the crew, then spend money.
You guys are the best. The industry loves your attitude on spending to win. And, I agree with all the recommendations you've mentioned, when you are ready to seriously compete. However, I have seen many people drop a load on sails and gear before even having a grasp on how to start much less which way to go, or even knowing the rules. They go out foul others and get protested, tear up their new sails (Sailmakers love that too), and even without a catastrophe, still end up dead last. After all, fast in the wrong direction is just as discouraging. My advice is still to get into your local sailing scene, in a class of boats similar in sailing ability, and have some fun, learn the boat, teach the crew, then spend money.
M
Mark Burrows
Jerry's other question
Can anyone answer Jerry's other question? Who should he contact about racing in Kemah, TX. Markdb
Can anyone answer Jerry's other question? Who should he contact about racing in Kemah, TX. Markdb
A
Alan
Question Part 2
Sorry, I have NO clue! Never been to Texas, don't know anyone from Texas. Suggest you talk to the local sailing clubs and find out from local racers. PS, Cliff, what I do for spelling: after I write, put the cursor over the script and right click. Choose 'Select All', then right click again and choose 'Cut'. Now hit the Start in the lower left and open Programs. Open 'Word', when the blank page opens, right click and select 'Paste'. Then go to the menu and select 'Spelling and Grammar'. Make corrections as suggested then right click 'Cut' and go back and right click and 'Paste' in the box.
Sorry, I have NO clue! Never been to Texas, don't know anyone from Texas. Suggest you talk to the local sailing clubs and find out from local racers. PS, Cliff, what I do for spelling: after I write, put the cursor over the script and right click. Choose 'Select All', then right click again and choose 'Cut'. Now hit the Start in the lower left and open Programs. Open 'Word', when the blank page opens, right click and select 'Paste'. Then go to the menu and select 'Spelling and Grammar'. Make corrections as suggested then right click 'Cut' and go back and right click and 'Paste' in the box.
S
Stu Sauer
Middle Ground
Just to keep this interesting forum going, I'll suggest that there is often significant middle ground between the true 'hot-shot' racers and the cruisers who race. Our area has major races divided into the usual classes; typically including a non spinaker group and a 'cruising class'. I usually have only one or two crew aboard, so I can choose to enter the PHRF Spinnaker divisions, the PHRF non-spinnaker, or the cruising fleet. As it happens these classses start 5 minutes apart, so if you are fastest in the cruising fleet, you may be catching the slower boats in the PHRF Non-spin fleet. You can at least get some kind of gauge on how you are doing, but most people I've seen trying to race a roller furler riggged shoal draft boat with a fixed prop are typically going to be disapointed finishing way back in the pack and may not come out again. On the issue of racing advice, any group I've seen is aware that they need to be looking out for new members. It gets more and more difficult to get enough boats out for club races - ask anyone who has been the Fleet Captain. Hence many clubs try to have some kind of introductory program or 'Fun-Fleet' to help new folks get started. Reading older posts to this forum you can see how many time guys like Alan and Cliff have offered their advice and they're very straight forward with a realistic assessment of what it takes to be consistently successful on the race course
Just to keep this interesting forum going, I'll suggest that there is often significant middle ground between the true 'hot-shot' racers and the cruisers who race. Our area has major races divided into the usual classes; typically including a non spinaker group and a 'cruising class'. I usually have only one or two crew aboard, so I can choose to enter the PHRF Spinnaker divisions, the PHRF non-spinnaker, or the cruising fleet. As it happens these classses start 5 minutes apart, so if you are fastest in the cruising fleet, you may be catching the slower boats in the PHRF Non-spin fleet. You can at least get some kind of gauge on how you are doing, but most people I've seen trying to race a roller furler riggged shoal draft boat with a fixed prop are typically going to be disapointed finishing way back in the pack and may not come out again. On the issue of racing advice, any group I've seen is aware that they need to be looking out for new members. It gets more and more difficult to get enough boats out for club races - ask anyone who has been the Fleet Captain. Hence many clubs try to have some kind of introductory program or 'Fun-Fleet' to help new folks get started. Reading older posts to this forum you can see how many time guys like Alan and Cliff have offered their advice and they're very straight forward with a realistic assessment of what it takes to be consistently successful on the race course
C
Cliff Ruckstuhl
We were rookies once
When I started racing it was with what I had. Dacron Sail's not such a fast bottom and me being a rookie and having my kids as crew. First couple of years we were in the back part of the fleet. But in the off season I would read, read and read about racing. Doing the bottom did'nt cost allot. But new sail's were our of reach for a guy with 3 kids. Even for a Hunter 23. But saved my money and we were able to buy the 150 Dacron I wanted. We sailed in a club that had it's hot shot racers and they also had the go Fast sail's and we were getting better but still mid fleet. Racing with crusing sail's is allot of fun and sailing in the JAM Fleet was still allot of fun and we still do it. Getting crew for the Spinnaker fleet sometime can be tough. We raced and had a great time. But it took some good sail's to get us to where I wanted to be. Because all the other guys were using them and were just plain faster then us because of it. I agree with Stu go out race have a great time and if you sail in a fleet where everything is equal with the 34 you should do well. I will add the non folding credit they give is not enough and that alone in a light air race will be what beats you. Cliff
When I started racing it was with what I had. Dacron Sail's not such a fast bottom and me being a rookie and having my kids as crew. First couple of years we were in the back part of the fleet. But in the off season I would read, read and read about racing. Doing the bottom did'nt cost allot. But new sail's were our of reach for a guy with 3 kids. Even for a Hunter 23. But saved my money and we were able to buy the 150 Dacron I wanted. We sailed in a club that had it's hot shot racers and they also had the go Fast sail's and we were getting better but still mid fleet. Racing with crusing sail's is allot of fun and sailing in the JAM Fleet was still allot of fun and we still do it. Getting crew for the Spinnaker fleet sometime can be tough. We raced and had a great time. But it took some good sail's to get us to where I wanted to be. Because all the other guys were using them and were just plain faster then us because of it. I agree with Stu go out race have a great time and if you sail in a fleet where everything is equal with the 34 you should do well. I will add the non folding credit they give is not enough and that alone in a light air race will be what beats you. Cliff
- Status
- Not open for further replies.