Walmart Batteries? Loads of questions ...

[Scott T-Bird]

I seem to recall that you (MS) gave a favorable review to Walmart batteries. I recently noticed that my (Sears) GRP 27 deep cycle batt was failing to charge and the other batt in my single bank was a GRP 29 bought at a different time. So, I basically decided to start new all the way around. I purchased 2 EverStart GRP 27 DC for house bank and 1 EverStart H5 for start batt and finished with the installation.

As an aside, one reason I was attracted to the Walmart DC batts is the vertical height to top of post is about 1/2" lower than competing brands, which is very important in my batt compartment (taller batteries just won't fit without modifying the compartment).

Being the kind of "shoot first, ask questions later" kind of guy that I am , I'm looking for some helpful input. First off, I'm frustrated by lack of info that I can find on internet. When I could find information on the ah rating, if I can find anything, it comes in a variety of formats, i.e. hours rated at 5 amp, 15 amp, 20 amp, 25 amp. None of them seem to translate into an equalized value so it seems impossible to compare. In any case, at the store, the battery claims to be rated at 109 ah. This seemed too high based on values I was able to gleen elsewhere on internet. Can this be right? Obviously, the lack of clarity didn't deter me from laying out the cash ...

Secondly, the start battery is described as "automotive" opposed to "lead-acid automotive" for the ones that have caps for re-fill. Obviously it is maintenance free because there are no caps but, what does this mean? Is it a maintenance free lead-acid, gel, agm? No literature describes.

Ok, I didn't think there is a need to worry about that ... I have a Blue Seas ACR linked to my Dual Circuit Plus switch (I'm sure ya'll have heard enough of my advocacy for that ), so I figured the lead-acid DC batts in house bank matched with the automotive start batt on aux bank would still be compatible.

My only means of charging is via the 80 amp alternator on my new 2YM15 engine. I'm not connected to shore power and haven't installed solar charging (good idea, I know). I want to sync my Xantrex Linkpro monitor to the fully charged batts. I brought them home and charged with a (somewhat) cheap (new) charger that I bought. I charged to float, surprised that it took about an hour for one of the batts (sales guy said they should be fully charged as the stickers were from May). I've put them in the boat and had lights on minimally, and possibly ran the engine for 30-45 minutes. I want to make sure they are fully charged when I sync. When I checked the amperage with a gauge, I get 12.4 on one DC, 12.5 on the other (that was before they were combined - now they are combined at about 12.5 after cooling down off the alternator) and IIRC about 12.6 on the start batt. Is this normal? The numbers on the gauge are always within a few hundredths of the monitor. When the engine runs, I saw 14.2 / 14.3 on the monitor and the charging amps seem to be about 4.1 amps with rpm at about 2000 - 2400.

Should I bring the charger to the boat and run them up again (I might have to remove the batts to do that as I'm sure that running an extension down the dock will be frowned upon)? Can I rely on the boat alternator to keep them topped off at this time? Should I set the capacity at 218 ah or use the default setting (200 ah)? Should I leave the default charger float setting on the linkpro at 13.2?

All responses, good, bad, ridicule, are welcome ... I have thick skin and the capacity to recover from just about any poor decision that I have made in this regard! Thanks all!

 

[Maine Sail]

About 9 years ago the Wal*Mart Maxx Marine 29 was really a US Battery DCXC group 31. US Battery sold this to Johnson Controls then Johnson (JCI) sold it to Wal*Mart. Today all of Wal*Marts batteries are el-chepo JCI batteries mostly made in their Mexico plant.

Unfortunately you can not get any info on them such as Peukert and they are grossly mislabeled so the Ah capacity is a crap shoot and NO ONE can tell you what it is... I have a a rough idea because I capacity tested one that had 4 months use. The old US Battery DCXC being sold at Wal*Mart was an oddity for sure, and only lasted about 3 years.... Those batteries I had are STILL GOING.....!!!!

The best value in a Wal*Mart family company battery is to be found at Sam's Club these days. In about half the states they are selling Deka / East Penn batteries which are a decent product. I would not personally buy the JCI product....

The good news is the Wal*Mart batteries are cheap so if you only get a couple years out of them no big deal... Ah to Ah the Sam's Club batteries are less money..

As for the BM the only way to know what you have, seeing as Wal*Mart can't seem to tell you us to physically capacity test them, which is not an easy process......

I would suggest re-synching when you see net current below 3A at 14.4V with no loads on...

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Thanks, looking into the maintenance-free further, I'm assuming it is a lead-calcium battery. Also, I was pretty skeptical about the stated capacity and see that Grp 27 batts are more like 65 to 75 ah, so I think I will set the capacity of the bank at 150 ah.

Well, I figured there was a caveat to the Walmart batts ... these are jci so we'll see how long they last. I've never started fresh with new batts for the bank so it will be an experiment to see how many cycles they last. I'll take care of maintenance to give them a fair chance. My next step will be to wire the alternator directly to the house bank ... why do they (Yanmar) insist on wiring the alternator to the start post?

 

[woodster]

... why do they (Yanmar) insist on wiring the alternator to the start post?

thats the only point they have to tie it to ...they ship these in crates and the factory installers don't know about wiring them direct to the battery without hooking them up to the starter post

 

[Maine Sail]

why do they (Yanmar) insist on wiring the alternator to the start post?

Not just Yanmar every engine manufacturer does this. Why? Because ti is CHEAP, and they know it is wired correctly when it leaves the factory. What builders choose to do beyond that is up to them. There are many custom & semi custom builders who do not cheap out on the electrical system and leave the alt on the starter post, but they also don't ship with the factory alternators either...

 

[John Nantz]

Telltale Signs

IF one is thinking about getting a battery where there isn't any trade-practice information available, the first things to look at are:

Dimensions. Being a half-inch shorter in height is one red flag.

Weight: Lead costs money so if it weighs less then the comparable yardstick battery, say a Trojan (their weights are readily available), then that's going to be another red flag.

I like Trojans, sure prices have gone up but, dang, are they ever expensive now.

 

[monkeybars]

If you are fairly knowledgable with maint just go with the new walmart maxx everstart's,as they are Johnson control who supplies at least a dozen other retailers such as autozone,interstate, sears, etc with the same battery. there newer version which comes with the nyloc nuts instead of wing nuts has a much improved warranty (three years, free return), if you know how to check and refill water you'll get at least 4-5 years out of them, if you spend money for the premium brands you'll spend double the money but only get a year or two extra.

 

[Sailm8]

I agree with Monkeybars. I budget for a battery replacement every 4 years. Sometimes I get 5 or 6 years and I am ahead. In any case I can get by on cheaper batteries. Now if I were a full time cruiser or live aboard this would not be a good plan but for a weekly sailor or casual cruiser, two 30 day cruises a year, it works great for me. YMMV

 

[patrickfarley]

I like my Walmart batteries.
Other more expensive batteries have died in less than two years. Then I found out that the warranty was prorated and only good if I purchased the same kind of battery. Then I found out the prorated amount was so small that I could still buy a Walmart battery for less money.

My tow vehicle takes two batteries. Walmart.
The battery in my boat is going on 4 years. Walmart.(kept charged with solar trickle charger)
Three years replacement can't be beat.

I have never checked the boat battery for specs, however, it has given me outstanding performance. 55lb trolling motor, laptop, nav unit, lights. I have drained it down to 11 volts. I left it in my basement one winter and it read less than 11 volts in the spring when I checked it. I charged it and while I am sure it took some damage it appears to work just fine. Used it today for 8 hours radio, CD and nav unit. I have not used it for more any overnighters this summer but daily use of radio/CD, nav unit, and lights don't drain it enough to matter. I don't think I will notice any change in performance until I use it overnight. I think I will run the fans tomorrow and check the voltage before and after. It might tell me if it is starting to loose capacity.

 

[monkeybars]

No battery is more forgiving than the good ole lead acid. with some knowledgeable maint practices they will last 6-7 years easily. There are definitely some that are of higher quality than JC's from walmart, but the life time cost is always less with the walmarts. And contrary to mainsails opinion of newer walmart batteries (he's upset because they won't supply technical data, so some what prejudiced of their quality) are much improved and now come with 3 yr free replacement warranties. You wont get that from Dekka or Trojan.

 

[Maine Sail]

No battery is more forgiving than the good ole lead acid.

All GEL, AGM and flooded batteries are "lead acid" so it depends upon which lead acid variant we are talking about. Good old deep cycle flooded batteries take a lot of abuse. 12V group 24, 27, 31 etc. "marine batteries" are not true deep cycle despite what the label says..

And contrary to mainsails opinion of newer walmart batteries (he's upset because they won't supply technical data, so some what prejudiced of their quality) are much improved and now come with 3 yr free replacement warranties. You wont get that from Dekka or Trojan.

Please don't insert what you assume I feel about WalMart batteries...

In this part of the country the WalMart marine batteries are either a 1 or 2 year warranty not 3 year....This is the same as Deka, West Marine etc...

The newer MAXX 29 weighs 61.7 pounds, the older version weighed almost 67 pounds... Read the reviews of the newer JCI marine battery on the WalMart site and you'll see I am not the only one seeing a lesser quality battery.

The old Maxx 29 was made by US Battery the new weighs less and has considerably less capacity and is made by JCI.. Capacitance tests also indicate that it is more of a dual purpose battery than a deep cycle.

Anyone buying marine batteries would ideally like to know:

How many ampere hours are these newer batteries at the 20 hour rate?

There is no such thing as a 1A rating for marine deep cycle batteries unless you are trying to hoodwink your customers. Industry standard ratings are in hours, 5 hour, 10 hour, 20 hour etc.. A 114Ah rating (Maxx 29) at 1A should yield somewhere around 85 Ah's using the 20 hour load, which is what every other legitimate marine battery is rated at. (this 85Ah's was backwards engineered and may be off a few Ah's either way.)

The Sam's Club Duracell / Deka 29HM is a 105Ah battery at the 20 hour rate. This means you really get 105Ah's for $94.67 with a known decent quality product. The Marine Maxx 29 is $99.97 for approx 85 Ah's of capacity.... WalMart batteries are not always the best value for the money their own sister company often beats them...

The old Marine Maxx 29's were 125 Ah batteries at the industry standard 20 hour rate, and they delivered this rating when tested. I tested it many times and ran three of these on my own boat. They were capacity tested at least 8 times.

I recently capacity tested (April 2014) a 1 year old Marine Maxx 29, the JCI version, and it delivered 74 Ah's after just 4 months of use and sitting on a float charger the rest of the time....... That is a 1 year old battery producing approx 59% of the energy to what the old Marine Maxx 29 did. Both tests where done using the same equipment and industry standard test protocol.

It is also a far cry from the 114Ah rating people assume they are getting. I can't say for sure what it would have been when new but this was a true 20 hour capacity test at a controlled discharge rate of 5.7A and controlled battery temperature to 75-76F data was captured using a Victrom BMV-602S and a Bogart Engineering Pentametric data logger..

What happens when someone buys this battery and programs 114 Ah's into a battery monitor and then take it to 50% DOD? If the battery is really 85A's then you are going to be well below 50% DOD..... Is this fair to the customer?

What is the Peukerts constant?

Kind of tough to program a battery monitor without this data..

So, no my musings on these new Marine Maxx batteries are not "prejudiced" they are arrived at based on actual data, weights, prices and physical capacity tests........ The sheer fact is these are NOT the old batteries WalMart built the Marine Maxx name on...

In my opinion (this part is prejudiced) they are scamming the gullible and mostly ill informed battery buyer into believing these are 114Ah batteries, and it borders on fraudulent marketing practices.

You want a good value buy the Deka / East Penn product sold as a Duracell from WalMart's sister company Sam's Club, this really is a good value. Approx 20 more Ah's for about $5.00 less per battery...

 

[monkeybars]

All GEL, AGM and flooded batteries are "lead acid" so it depends upon which lead acid variant we are talking about. Good old deep cycle flooded batteries take a lot of abuse. 12V group 24, 27, 31 etc. "marine batteries" are not true deep cycle despite what the label says..

Anyone buying marine batteries would ideally like to know:

How many ampere hours are these newer batteries at the 20 hour rate?

There is no such thing as a 1A rating for marine deep cycle batteries unless you are trying to hoodwink your customers. Industry standard ratings are in hours, 5 hour, 10 hour, 20 hour etc.. A 114Ah rating (Maxx 29) at 1A should yield somewhere around 85 Ah's using the 20 hour load, which is what every other legitimate marine battery is rated at. (this 85Ah's was backwards engineered and may be off a few Ah's either way.)

The Sam's Club Duracell / Deka 29HM is a 105Ah battery at the 20 hour rate. This means you really get 105Ah's for $94.67 with a known decent quality product. The Marine Maxx 29 is $99.97 for approx 85 Ah's of capacity.... WalMart batteries are not always the best value for the money their own sister company often beats them...

The old Marine Maxx 29's were 125 Ah batteries at the industry standard 20 hour rate, and they delivered this rating when tested. I tested it many times and ran three of these on my own boat. They were capacity tested at least 8 times.

I recently capacity tested (April 2014) a 1 year old Marine Maxx 29, the JCI version, and it delivered 74 Ah's after just 4 months of use and sitting on a float charger the rest of the time....... That is a 1 year old battery producing approx 59% of the energy to what the old Marine Maxx 29 did. Both tests where done using the same equipment and industry standard test protocol.

It is also a far cry from the 114Ah rating people assume they are getting. I can't say for sure what it would have been when new but this was a true 20 hour capacity test at a controlled discharge rate of 5.7A and controlled battery temperature to 75-76F data was captured using a Victrom BMV-602S and a Bogart Engineering Pentametric data logger..

What happens when someone buys this battery and programs 114 Ah's into a battery monitor and then take it to 50% DOD? If the battery is really 85A's then you are going to be well below 50% DOD..... Is this fair to the customer?

What is the Peukerts constant?

Kind of tough to program a battery monitor without this data..

Surely Dekkas and Trojans are of a higher quality, no contest there, but if your not a world sailer and don't get much more than 50-100 miles from the marina a bank of walmarts finest will work just fine at a much cheaper price .Your particular battery is defective and should be exchanged under warranty for a new one obliviously. And while we all appreciate your very detailed experiments and tests its very clear you get miffed over little details and inaccuracies from manufacturers and hold a prejudice against them. I personally have never seen walmarts sell anything but a JCI since 2008. But there are regional differences as shown buy the delay in the SW region getting the new 3yrs warranty super maxx's with the new nyloc nuts instead of good ole wingnuts. Keep up the good work!!!!!!!