It seems that the W-C H-M has garnered the reputation as being the bottom of the heap for marine toilets. Practical Sailor seems to support this view, as do many correspondents here. I have one, as no doubt many others do; it is probably the most common marine toilet, and perhasp the most common EOM one as well, probably due to price. I would like to know the truth about its quality, reliability, longevity, and repair cost and difficulty. Although I have asked more than once, no one has offered any details about what, exactly, is wrong with these. What fails? Is it soemthing renewable that wears out, or is it some other component that breaks? I would appreciate it if you would confine your comments here to real experiences with the W-C Head Mate, regarding failures, repairs, and related experiences. Thanks, jv p.s. I hav eno connection or interest whatsoever with W-C or any other marine company.
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Leaks
When I furst got my boat, the head would leak clean water at the pump rod packing. I finger-tightened it and it has been O.K. since.
When I furst got my boat, the head would leak clean water at the pump rod packing. I finger-tightened it and it has been O.K. since.
W-C Web site
I am not sure about the place the W-C Head mate marine toilet has in the world of boating. However my Catalina 30 has one. I recently rebuilt it without much problem. Wilcox Critteden has a nice web site that parts and rebuild kits can be ordered from. http://www.wilcox-crittenden.com/ I found the company easy to deal with. My Head Mate toilet seems to serve us well. As of right now I wouldnt consider replacing it.
I am not sure about the place the W-C Head mate marine toilet has in the world of boating. However my Catalina 30 has one. I recently rebuilt it without much problem. Wilcox Critteden has a nice web site that parts and rebuild kits can be ordered from. http://www.wilcox-crittenden.com/ I found the company easy to deal with. My Head Mate toilet seems to serve us well. As of right now I wouldnt consider replacing it.
Not quite the bottom of the heap...
There's one that's worse... Just as there are differences in the quality of various makes/models of cars, electronics, home appliances and just about every other manufactured item, there are differences in the quality of the various makes/models of marine toilets. Cheaper, less durable materials vs higher priced, better quality materials...higher tolerances/lower manufacturing standards and methods (less expensive) vs. closer tolerences/higher standards & methods (more expensive...lower quality control vs higher when it comes to what's considered "acceptable" to go out the door. All these things determine the durability and reliability of any product, and marine toilets are no different. Cheaper materials can cause a pump cylinder to crack more easily or be more susceptible to being scored by sand and salt than one made of more expensive materials. Lower quality control standards can mean differences in how well the seals seal--the pump wall may be thinner or thicker...the seals a micron different in diameter or shape...higher or lower quality rubber. Molds and dyes also wear out and require replacing...another mfrg expense. The more worn they're allowed to become, the more difference there is between the specs and the actual products. Those are just some of the things that make the difference between a good quality piece of equipment and a "disposable" piece of equipment. Other factors include employee relations--poor leads to high turnover and lower quality work, good means people who are knowledgable and take pride in their work and who they work for. So the answer to your question, 'What fails? Is it soemthing renewable that wears out, or is it some other component that breaks?" is all of the above, or if you're lucky, none of the above. If you were to poll enough people, you'd get as many answer to "what breaks or wears out" as there are parts in the toilet, and as many people who've had -0- problems as people who've had lots of problems. The important issue is reliability...can you count on every unit to be exactly the same as every other unit? And the answer, when it comes to cheap toilets is, no. You could get lucky and get a cheap toilet that'll last forever...or you could spend half your time dealing with problems...or anything in between...it's a crapshoot. Durability and quality control are part of what you pay for in more expensive toilets. And rhe extra $75 or so for a toilet that has a reputation for durability and reliability is a small price to pay IMO.
There's one that's worse... Just as there are differences in the quality of various makes/models of cars, electronics, home appliances and just about every other manufactured item, there are differences in the quality of the various makes/models of marine toilets. Cheaper, less durable materials vs higher priced, better quality materials...higher tolerances/lower manufacturing standards and methods (less expensive) vs. closer tolerences/higher standards & methods (more expensive...lower quality control vs higher when it comes to what's considered "acceptable" to go out the door. All these things determine the durability and reliability of any product, and marine toilets are no different. Cheaper materials can cause a pump cylinder to crack more easily or be more susceptible to being scored by sand and salt than one made of more expensive materials. Lower quality control standards can mean differences in how well the seals seal--the pump wall may be thinner or thicker...the seals a micron different in diameter or shape...higher or lower quality rubber. Molds and dyes also wear out and require replacing...another mfrg expense. The more worn they're allowed to become, the more difference there is between the specs and the actual products. Those are just some of the things that make the difference between a good quality piece of equipment and a "disposable" piece of equipment. Other factors include employee relations--poor leads to high turnover and lower quality work, good means people who are knowledgable and take pride in their work and who they work for. So the answer to your question, 'What fails? Is it soemthing renewable that wears out, or is it some other component that breaks?" is all of the above, or if you're lucky, none of the above. If you were to poll enough people, you'd get as many answer to "what breaks or wears out" as there are parts in the toilet, and as many people who've had -0- problems as people who've had lots of problems. The important issue is reliability...can you count on every unit to be exactly the same as every other unit? And the answer, when it comes to cheap toilets is, no. You could get lucky and get a cheap toilet that'll last forever...or you could spend half your time dealing with problems...or anything in between...it's a crapshoot. Durability and quality control are part of what you pay for in more expensive toilets. And rhe extra $75 or so for a toilet that has a reputation for durability and reliability is a small price to pay IMO.
w-c Headmate myths and truths
Good Morning all, we have had two of the marvelous beasts...ine on a 25' and the second on the 28'. The later was a twenty year old unit that I rebuilt twice in the time (ten years) I owned it. Now that's not too bad when you consider that the last year that we owned the boat we lived aboard and took her South thru FLA. Never a glitch or a cough! The second tome I "rebuilt" it I chose to purchase a new pump assembly...it was more cost effective with the sale I found. We were careful what we put down there, we did add veggie oil twice a year and put Bio/destink after we pumped her out. Pretty simple unit...pretty simple operation! That's my story and I'm sticking with it!
Good Morning all, we have had two of the marvelous beasts...ine on a 25' and the second on the 28'. The later was a twenty year old unit that I rebuilt twice in the time (ten years) I owned it. Now that's not too bad when you consider that the last year that we owned the boat we lived aboard and took her South thru FLA. Never a glitch or a cough! The second tome I "rebuilt" it I chose to purchase a new pump assembly...it was more cost effective with the sale I found. We were careful what we put down there, we did add veggie oil twice a year and put Bio/destink after we pumped her out. Pretty simple unit...pretty simple operation! That's my story and I'm sticking with it!
Component failures?
Has anyone experienced failure of components on teh H-M other than renewable parts, meaning something broke that wasn't in the rebuild kit?
Has anyone experienced failure of components on teh H-M other than renewable parts, meaning something broke that wasn't in the rebuild kit?
Oh Boy, Research!
As much as I love Peg of My Heart (Peggy Hall), I love research more. I must have been born under the sign of the Consumer Union or something. I have had three boats with the Jabsco head unit and none have ever broken on me for any reason. I do a maintance job on them once of year whether they need it or not. However, I do use CP and KO during the season (plus vinegar and superlub). Maybe that scares the unit into running properly.
As much as I love Peg of My Heart (Peggy Hall), I love research more. I must have been born under the sign of the Consumer Union or something. I have had three boats with the Jabsco head unit and none have ever broken on me for any reason. I do a maintance job on them once of year whether they need it or not. However, I do use CP and KO during the season (plus vinegar and superlub). Maybe that scares the unit into running properly.
Btw, John...
The W-C Headmate is neither the cheapest nor the most common OEM installed manual toilet. That "honor" goes to the Jabsco "compact" model 29020-2000. I'm not sure what your real concern is. You're apparently not shopping for a toilet, and you seem happy with what you have. So...it's a cheap low-end model. But until/unless it starts to give you problems, keep it well lubricated with teflon grease and quit worrying about where it ranks in the marine toilet "food chain." The time to worry about that is when you're shopping for a replacement.
The W-C Headmate is neither the cheapest nor the most common OEM installed manual toilet. That "honor" goes to the Jabsco "compact" model 29020-2000. I'm not sure what your real concern is. You're apparently not shopping for a toilet, and you seem happy with what you have. So...it's a cheap low-end model. But until/unless it starts to give you problems, keep it well lubricated with teflon grease and quit worrying about where it ranks in the marine toilet "food chain." The time to worry about that is when you're shopping for a replacement.
?
Peggy, I'm interested in the topic. I'm not concerned about where mine is "in the food chain." I don't have any covert motivation, as you suggest. I am interested in fialure modes and failure mechanisms, and I'm interested in what others' experiences with this unit might be. I'm not worried about anything. It would be nice to know, though, if there is some part that is likely to break that isn't in the maintenence kit, so one might carry one as a spare. I wouldn't want to spend my 4th of July in Nantucket searching around for a cylinder, when I could order one now for $14.00. jv
Peggy, I'm interested in the topic. I'm not concerned about where mine is "in the food chain." I don't have any covert motivation, as you suggest. I am interested in fialure modes and failure mechanisms, and I'm interested in what others' experiences with this unit might be. I'm not worried about anything. It would be nice to know, though, if there is some part that is likely to break that isn't in the maintenence kit, so one might carry one as a spare. I wouldn't want to spend my 4th of July in Nantucket searching around for a cylinder, when I could order one now for $14.00. jv
Wasn't suggesting any covert motivation
It's just that I can't ever recall anyone asking about what MIGHT happen to a toilet he owns that isn't giving him any problems...only how to fix something that broke, or which toilet to buy. I don't think it's possible to forecast what part is likely to fail or not ...the Jabsco manual toilet happens to be an exception, but only because they've had a rash of one thing--dry/flush valve failures--for the past couple of years. The only way you can be 100% certain of having any part that MIGHT fail is to carry a complete spare toilet. But the same applies to everything else on a boat, from your engine to your main halyard to your GPS. Anything mechanical CAN break...even the best quality products. But sudden catastrophic failures rarely happen in equipment that's been maintained, only in machinery that's been ignored and neglected. You couldn't carry enough spare parts to be sure you could replace ANYthing that MIGHT fail anywhere on your boat. If the toilet is working fine, and if it's relatively new or recently rebuilt, it's not likely to leave you hunting for parts away from home without giving you plently of warning before you leave that something is failing. Even a leaking head pump cylinder is NOT a catastrophic failure..the toilet will still work...you'll just have a few more wet towels to wash, but the water will be clean.
Besides, even if you have the right part, I don't think you'd want to spend your July 4th taking a toilet apart that's working at all. Even I'm not THAT dedicated!
It's just that I can't ever recall anyone asking about what MIGHT happen to a toilet he owns that isn't giving him any problems...only how to fix something that broke, or which toilet to buy. I don't think it's possible to forecast what part is likely to fail or not ...the Jabsco manual toilet happens to be an exception, but only because they've had a rash of one thing--dry/flush valve failures--for the past couple of years. The only way you can be 100% certain of having any part that MIGHT fail is to carry a complete spare toilet. But the same applies to everything else on a boat, from your engine to your main halyard to your GPS. Anything mechanical CAN break...even the best quality products. But sudden catastrophic failures rarely happen in equipment that's been maintained, only in machinery that's been ignored and neglected. You couldn't carry enough spare parts to be sure you could replace ANYthing that MIGHT fail anywhere on your boat. If the toilet is working fine, and if it's relatively new or recently rebuilt, it's not likely to leave you hunting for parts away from home without giving you plently of warning before you leave that something is failing. Even a leaking head pump cylinder is NOT a catastrophic failure..the toilet will still work...you'll just have a few more wet towels to wash, but the water will be clean.
Besides, even if you have the right part, I don't think you'd want to spend your July 4th taking a toilet apart that's working at all. Even I'm not THAT dedicated!
Peggie Has A Good Point
I have had three WC's. Rebuilt all three. More than once. The wet/dry lever broke in two of them. All three leaked at the shaft at one point or another. This is over 30 years, mind you. Have also had/have JABSCO for many years. Had problems with the wet/dry valve (the rubber one, not the lever) as Peggy said. Also the base broke on one. And, in older models, the piston was prone to come off the shaft. Frankly, I don't think about it much anymore. I rebuild the heads yearly or at worst, disassemble them and lube them and then overhaul them every other year. I keep the old parts, cleaned and lubed, in a zip lock bag, for repair when the thing fails. It ALWAYS will. Sometime. So, it just pays to have a repair kit handy. And, you are less likely to need it if the NEW stuff is IN the head and the OLD stuff OUT. IMHO, Rick D.
I have had three WC's. Rebuilt all three. More than once. The wet/dry lever broke in two of them. All three leaked at the shaft at one point or another. This is over 30 years, mind you. Have also had/have JABSCO for many years. Had problems with the wet/dry valve (the rubber one, not the lever) as Peggy said. Also the base broke on one. And, in older models, the piston was prone to come off the shaft. Frankly, I don't think about it much anymore. I rebuild the heads yearly or at worst, disassemble them and lube them and then overhaul them every other year. I keep the old parts, cleaned and lubed, in a zip lock bag, for repair when the thing fails. It ALWAYS will. Sometime. So, it just pays to have a repair kit handy. And, you are less likely to need it if the NEW stuff is IN the head and the OLD stuff OUT. IMHO, Rick D.
Thanks
for the responses, but I think we're re-hashing a lot of generic stuff that has been posted here many times already. I am really looking for W-C Head Mate specific experiences.
for the responses, but I think we're re-hashing a lot of generic stuff that has been posted here many times already. I am really looking for W-C Head Mate specific experiences.
Rick, what part of the lever broke?
What part of the wet/dry lever, was it the handle, the vacum breaker finger, or the cam? Or am I on hte wrong track? Thanks, jv
What part of the wet/dry lever, was it the handle, the vacum breaker finger, or the cam? Or am I on hte wrong track? Thanks, jv
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