VSR battery switch

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jphud

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Nov 18, 2010
70
1980 Hunter 37 C Saugerties
I am installing new batteries and charger on my 1980 Hunter 30.
One house battery and one starting battery, and I may install a second house battery. Should I also install a voltage sensing battery switch to provide charging while underway?
Does anyone out there like Crown batteries?

Thanks
 
Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
Don't you have a regular red 1/2/Both battery switch? If properly wired the battery connected to the alternator is going to get charged. Assuming, of course, that you are running the engine. I don't know anyone using a voltage sensing "switch", really just a relay. The function of a VSR is to switch to the other battery bank if the primary drops below a certain voltage. Is that really what you want? I would worry that whatever just drained the one bank is now going to drain the second, probably leaving you without a start battery.
 

jphud

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Nov 18, 2010
70
1980 Hunter 37 C Saugerties
Sounds good,
I do have a 1/2/all switch. Any need for secondary voltage regulator to prevent overcharging. My alternator is the stock 2Gm20F
 
Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
Your alternator doesn't have the best voltage regulator but it will do the job. What kind of charger do you have for shorepower? That will also have a regulator. And probably switches to set for type of batteries.

My own setup is probably as delivered from the factory except for some improved equipment. The batteries are all AGM, one 900 CCA for starter and four group 27s for house. Battery switch 1 cable goes to the start battery. Switch position 2 goes to the four house batteries. All Cherubinis had the output of the battery switch going to a post on the starter. That post also is connected to the alternator. So when the alternator is working the charge goes back to the battery switch. If you are on pos. 1 then you are charging the start battery, switch pos. 2 then charging the house bank.

My installation has one little wrinkle, a battery combiner that ties the house batteries and start battery together. When the bank that is being charged reaches float level the combiner opens and lets the charge voltage go over to the other bank. Because of this I can always leave my switch on pos.2 and know that both banks will get charged.
 

jphud

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Nov 18, 2010
70
1980 Hunter 37 C Saugerties
Thank You Ed,
Any suggestions on a small 12v DC/AC flat TV
 
Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
Your question about television is a good one and needs its own post I think. I paid too much for a flat panel back in their infancy. Nice for charts. Never found a way to get decent TV reception. We used a DVD player for movies, maybe twice between Erie and Tampa. Now with everything going digital I have no idea what people are doing.
 

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Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
VSR vs diodes vs 3-way (1-2-both-off) switch.
All do basicly the same thing, allow the isolation of a start battery from the house battery. The 3-way also allows you to start from the house if need be. The VSR and diode method do not without additional switches/cables.
VSR and diodes do not requrie human intervention, 3-way do
VSRs cost you a small amount of current to operatie them
Diodes cost yo a small amount of voltage to operate them
VSR and diodes can leave you high and dry with out warning
I do not know of a 3-way that has ever failed
the current needed by the VSR is ignorable as you will have to have a charging source turned on to even get them to work
The voltage needed by diodes is important (1ish volts) so it pays to understand how your regulator is getting its voltage info, before or after the diode (after is recomended)
combining batteries or getting the house bank to start the engines is more complicated with VSR and diodes, with a 3-way it is brainless and easy
The cost is about the same for all these systems.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,704
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
VSR vs diodes vs 3-way (1-2-both-off) switch.
All do basicly the same thing, allow the isolation of a start battery from the house battery. The 3-way also allows you to start from the house if need be. The VSR and diode method do not without additional switches/cables.
VSR and diodes do not requrie human intervention, 3-way do
VSRs cost you a small amount of current to operatie them
Diodes cost yo a small amount of voltage to operate them
VSR and diodes can leave you high and dry with out warning
I do not know of a 3-way that has ever failed
the current needed by the VSR is ignorable as you will have to have a charging source turned on to even get them to work
The voltage needed by diodes is important (1ish volts) so it pays to understand how your regulator is getting its voltage info, before or after the diode (after is recomended)
combining batteries or getting the house bank to start the engines is more complicated with VSR and diodes, with a 3-way it is brainless and easy
The cost is about the same for all these systems.
Bill,

Unless I read it wrong it appears the OP already has a 1/2/BOTH/OFF switch and intends on adding an ACR or voltage sensitive relay to it? I install VSR's with 1/2/BOTH/OFF switches quite often and it is a great option. They are not exclusive of a 1/2/BOTH/OFF and make a great addition to one.. I am actually installing an ACR tomorrow on an older Ericson along with a new charger, dedicated reserve battery and re-wiring the alternator and battery system...

I don't know any marine electricians that currently install diode isolators due to the numerous obstacles associated with installing them. Many chargers and solar regulators these days need to see a voltage to even turn on. Most diode isolators have no voltage at the "input" lug when not actively charging making turning on of the charger or controller a difficult feat. Some chargers do have a sense wire but I have yet to find a decent solar controller that does and here in Maine we have LOTS of moorings and lots of supplementary solar.

I was at Hamilton this morning and asked the electrical aisle guy to search the system for the last time they even sold a diode isolator...2007! They still have two very, very dusty ones on the shelf that look to be about 6+ years old. ACR's on the other hand fly off the shelves. I have also yet to see a failure of an ACR except for one or two Pathmakers which were discontinued. They are very reliable and if installed with a 1/2/BOTH/OFF switch you can always still use the switch in the event of a failure. There are many boats out there with diode isolators and many of them are installed incorrectly and the batteries suffer a voltage drop and under charge as a result. An ACR or an Echo Charger can easily be installed with solar or an alternator or charger without a sense wire, a diode isolator should not be installed without sensing the battery.

For charging of a start bank these days the Echo Charger or an ACR are the two most popular choices. It's seems nearly everyone is now in the VSR game including Blue Seas, Victron, Sterling, BEP, Yandina and more. I tend to install the Yandina's or the Blue Sea's units but do more Blue Sea than anything else as Hamilton stocks them and they are less money than the Yandina nad have heavier lugs and a very robust case.. The Victron is inexpensive, under $50.00, but I am not crazy about the way it wires up so usually spend the extra $20.00 on the Blue Sea ACR..
 
Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
So Maine, what are the advantages of the ACR compared to my combiner? Both of my banks stay charged with the combiner. But I think there is more to the ACR.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,704
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
So Maine, what are the advantages of the ACR compared to my combiner? Both of my banks stay charged with the combiner. But I think there is more to the ACR.

What combiner do you have? ACR is a Blue Sea branded name, and they are combiners. The generic term for them is VSR or voltage sensitive relay.

The Blue Seas ACR or the Yandina or the BEP or the Victron all do essentially the same thing. They simply make or close the relay when charge voltage is present and break the relay when there is no charge voltage. It is essentially the same as flipping the switch to ALL only it never forgets to switch it off of ALL or flip it on...
 
Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
Feb 6, 1998
11,704
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Not sure they are available like this West Marine version any longer: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/WEST-MARINE-BATTERY-COMBINER-70-A-DO-NOT-GET-STRANDED-/160584771008 . Have no idea who made it. But my understanding was that the charge only flows to the other bank when the attached bank reaches float. However that does not jibe with the text in the above link. So I guess I have had a VSR the whole time.
Most of the West Marine combiners were made by Yandina. They simply combine when the voltage reaches about 13.3v for a set period of time and disconnect when the voltage falls below that set point. They are very simple and very reliable... Basically just a automatic hand to turn your switch to ALL under charging conditions and turn it off when charging is not happening.
 
Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
Thanks Maine, that was always my understanding. Whatever, I know it works. My charger is connected to the house bank as is the alternator when on pos. #2. And the start battery is always up. So I know it is working. I do check everytime I am on the boat. Easy to do with the Link 2000 handy in the galley.
 

jphud

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Nov 18, 2010
70
1980 Hunter 37 C Saugerties
Thanks again for all the info. I will be giving the vsr a try after a trip to Lake Champlain. Don't like to make to many changes without a good shake down period.
 
Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
Rhythm, I don't have anything showing all. But would that help you, are our boats similar enough? In this starboard locker picture you can see one battery. Now there is another right beside it. That inverter/charger is mounted on the back of the icebox. Below that icebox, right on the hull, are where the original two were installed. One is the start battery, the other a house. Then in the bilge is a fourth house battery. All are group 27 AGMs, 96ah each.
 

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