I am a new Vision 32. Did my first race and wow !! I was dead last Is racing a Vision 32 a cntradiction in terms ?
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Not Sure
So much plays into being last. We need more info on the boat and you. Tell us how the boat is prepaired good sail's,folding prop, smooth bottom and your racing and sailing experance. Also who you are racing against. If the whole fleet is running Kevler Racing Sail's and your running old Dacron stuff like that. Cliff
So much plays into being last. We need more info on the boat and you. Tell us how the boat is prepaired good sail's,folding prop, smooth bottom and your racing and sailing experance. Also who you are racing against. If the whole fleet is running Kevler Racing Sail's and your running old Dacron stuff like that. Cliff
Richard, e-mail This Guy....
Find Rodger Beard of Dana Point in the directory. He has a V32 which he has raced for several years. He has tape-drive sails, a larger-roach main, larger jib and spinnaker. He has a folding prop too. He placed well in last year's Ensenada race, but has a tough time sailing to his rating around the bouys. The boat itself is pretty fast boat-for-boat, but the PHRF rating is difficult and it takes years to adjust it. I find that SoCal PHRF ratings for Hunters are tough anyway. Shoal keels on most of them really hurt and the rating doesn't seem to like the fractional rigs. Having said all that, sailing a V32 is a different experience and will take some time to optimize. For example, I found myself with the boom consistently out more than the boats around me. Good sailing, Rick D.
Find Rodger Beard of Dana Point in the directory. He has a V32 which he has raced for several years. He has tape-drive sails, a larger-roach main, larger jib and spinnaker. He has a folding prop too. He placed well in last year's Ensenada race, but has a tough time sailing to his rating around the bouys. The boat itself is pretty fast boat-for-boat, but the PHRF rating is difficult and it takes years to adjust it. I find that SoCal PHRF ratings for Hunters are tough anyway. Shoal keels on most of them really hurt and the rating doesn't seem to like the fractional rigs. Having said all that, sailing a V32 is a different experience and will take some time to optimize. For example, I found myself with the boom consistently out more than the boats around me. Good sailing, Rick D.
Corrected Time More Important
What really matters is how you finished on corrected time and the PHRF is supposed to level the playing field. Several years ago in the Pacific Cup, San Francisco to Hawaii, a Westsail 32 came in last overall in a fleet with racing sleds and other go-fast boats but won first overall on corrected time. Needless to say there were some very upset people who had expensive boats and spent a lot of money for the race. If this is your first race you'll be on a steep learning curve. Tactics (wind changes, currents - no cost), sail trim (no cost), light weight (no cost - get all the junk off), smooth bottom (low cost),low drag prop, upgrade the sails all help. Each race you'll learn something new.
What really matters is how you finished on corrected time and the PHRF is supposed to level the playing field. Several years ago in the Pacific Cup, San Francisco to Hawaii, a Westsail 32 came in last overall in a fleet with racing sleds and other go-fast boats but won first overall on corrected time. Needless to say there were some very upset people who had expensive boats and spent a lot of money for the race. If this is your first race you'll be on a steep learning curve. Tactics (wind changes, currents - no cost), sail trim (no cost), light weight (no cost - get all the junk off), smooth bottom (low cost),low drag prop, upgrade the sails all help. Each race you'll learn something new.
Keep Racing
We have raced the Ensenada Race for the last three years on a Hunter 32V called Tsunami. Two years ago we placed fifth and trophied. Last year we placed sixth in our class after straying off course in the middle of the night. They are fast down and off wind. But they are a different boat. It is just fun to race and be out on the ocean. Last is fun too!!!
We have raced the Ensenada Race for the last three years on a Hunter 32V called Tsunami. Two years ago we placed fifth and trophied. Last year we placed sixth in our class after straying off course in the middle of the night. They are fast down and off wind. But they are a different boat. It is just fun to race and be out on the ocean. Last is fun too!!!
Boat & Cptain info
The boat has original dacron sails boat had a just cleaned bottom with original sails It was a Cruiser Class Race I have had no racing experience although I have been sailing casually for several years but had a crew member (on the main sail) that had been in this race several times. The problem didn't seem to be pure speed but ability sail close tot he wind. I had to go almost20 degress further from the wind than all other competetiors to reach max speed
The boat has original dacron sails boat had a just cleaned bottom with original sails It was a Cruiser Class Race I have had no racing experience although I have been sailing casually for several years but had a crew member (on the main sail) that had been in this race several times. The problem didn't seem to be pure speed but ability sail close tot he wind. I had to go almost20 degress further from the wind than all other competetiors to reach max speed
What Sail Upgrades
John, Thanks for the encouragement. WHat sail upgrades would you suggest ? Regards Richard
John, Thanks for the encouragement. WHat sail upgrades would you suggest ? Regards Richard
Richard,
I just read your post about "..go almost20 degress further from the wind than all other competetiors to reach max speed". I don't know if you realize that "max speed" is NOT the goal. No sailboat sails close hauled at its rated hull speed. What you ARE lookig for is highest VMG. Sailing at the best angle and boat speed to get to the target in the shortest period of time. This means trading speed for height. There comes a point where sailing extra distance for the sake of higher speed is not beneficial. If you can either buy or develope 'Polars', they will tell you target boat speed and sailing angles for your boat.
I just read your post about "..go almost20 degress further from the wind than all other competetiors to reach max speed". I don't know if you realize that "max speed" is NOT the goal. No sailboat sails close hauled at its rated hull speed. What you ARE lookig for is highest VMG. Sailing at the best angle and boat speed to get to the target in the shortest period of time. This means trading speed for height. There comes a point where sailing extra distance for the sake of higher speed is not beneficial. If you can either buy or develope 'Polars', they will tell you target boat speed and sailing angles for your boat.
Sail Upgrades vs. Prop Upgrade?
Richard - You're off to a good start with a fresh, clean bottom. This is proably the #1 most important thing one can do and at essentially "no cost" because the boat needs bottom paint anyway and then it's just a matter of timing, at the beginning of the racing season, and the details of puting it on so it's smooth. For example, with Petit Trinidad I use a thin foam roller instead of a knap roller and this helps. The second most important thing is a low-drag prop because the penalty in seconds per mile is not near as bad as what you gain. The cost of any new sail from a name-brand loft will probably be more than the prop. With regard to "new" sails, I'd recommend starting with the sails you have. Have a sailmaker give you an assessment of the shape - if there is too much draft and if they can be re-cut. Ask of the bolt-rope needs to be readjusted as they are nortorious for shrinking and will cause an increase in draft, especially for the age of your sails. If the sails can't be cost-effectively recut then these would be the first ones that should be replaced. Sail trim: I'd try this before adding new sails. Make sure the jib has telltails on the luff and put some tell tails on the ends of the batten pockets on the main. Next learn to trim the sail properly and see what happens. Adding telltails is a very, very, cheap solution for improving sail trim and, ergo, performance. After the above probably and asymetrical spinnaker may be in order but talk to some sailmakers first. I'm really not familiar with what would make this boat go better but on most boats the spinnaker is another item that tends to give a better time than the penalty for flying sails. Examine how the course is laid out and look at the apparent wind that is normally experienced. A full spinaker adds much more sail area, and therefore "horsepower", than an asymetrical but you need to have some good sail handlers to do it justice and from the postings I don't get the feeling you've got the crew hence the asymetrical recommendation. Again, I'd defer to a sail loft for their take but only if they ask what the typical wind conditions/angles and course lengths are. It's a wonderful feeling when you can eke 0.5 or 1.0 knots out of the same boat as before and racing will really help improve sail trim skills in this regard. Oh, and one more major item: currents. Make sure you know how the currents, eddys, etc. are on the race course - they can add or subtract big time. Maybe where you are the tides are so small it doesn't matter that much but up here with 12 and 16 ft tides it makes all the difference in the world.
Richard - You're off to a good start with a fresh, clean bottom. This is proably the #1 most important thing one can do and at essentially "no cost" because the boat needs bottom paint anyway and then it's just a matter of timing, at the beginning of the racing season, and the details of puting it on so it's smooth. For example, with Petit Trinidad I use a thin foam roller instead of a knap roller and this helps. The second most important thing is a low-drag prop because the penalty in seconds per mile is not near as bad as what you gain. The cost of any new sail from a name-brand loft will probably be more than the prop. With regard to "new" sails, I'd recommend starting with the sails you have. Have a sailmaker give you an assessment of the shape - if there is too much draft and if they can be re-cut. Ask of the bolt-rope needs to be readjusted as they are nortorious for shrinking and will cause an increase in draft, especially for the age of your sails. If the sails can't be cost-effectively recut then these would be the first ones that should be replaced. Sail trim: I'd try this before adding new sails. Make sure the jib has telltails on the luff and put some tell tails on the ends of the batten pockets on the main. Next learn to trim the sail properly and see what happens. Adding telltails is a very, very, cheap solution for improving sail trim and, ergo, performance. After the above probably and asymetrical spinnaker may be in order but talk to some sailmakers first. I'm really not familiar with what would make this boat go better but on most boats the spinnaker is another item that tends to give a better time than the penalty for flying sails. Examine how the course is laid out and look at the apparent wind that is normally experienced. A full spinaker adds much more sail area, and therefore "horsepower", than an asymetrical but you need to have some good sail handlers to do it justice and from the postings I don't get the feeling you've got the crew hence the asymetrical recommendation. Again, I'd defer to a sail loft for their take but only if they ask what the typical wind conditions/angles and course lengths are. It's a wonderful feeling when you can eke 0.5 or 1.0 knots out of the same boat as before and racing will really help improve sail trim skills in this regard. Oh, and one more major item: currents. Make sure you know how the currents, eddys, etc. are on the race course - they can add or subtract big time. Maybe where you are the tides are so small it doesn't matter that much but up here with 12 and 16 ft tides it makes all the difference in the world.
Agree w/ Allen on VMG
After reading Allens post I have to agree - and I should have said something too. There is something wrong if you're footing off anywhere near 20 degrees from the competition. A few degrees - maybe, but nothing anywhere near 20. Find out what kind of props the competition has and I guarentee those with low-drag props are going to be the ones walking away and pointing higher. A fixed-blade prop is just like a sea anchor and will destroy the boats tracking ability by several degrees. If I sounds like I'm harping on the prop (don't know what kind you have) it's because it's the most important thing in sailing, assuming everything else is in good shape. Also, at this angle the jib should probably be sheeted to the toe-rail and not inboard on a genoa track.
After reading Allens post I have to agree - and I should have said something too. There is something wrong if you're footing off anywhere near 20 degrees from the competition. A few degrees - maybe, but nothing anywhere near 20. Find out what kind of props the competition has and I guarentee those with low-drag props are going to be the ones walking away and pointing higher. A fixed-blade prop is just like a sea anchor and will destroy the boats tracking ability by several degrees. If I sounds like I'm harping on the prop (don't know what kind you have) it's because it's the most important thing in sailing, assuming everything else is in good shape. Also, at this angle the jib should probably be sheeted to the toe-rail and not inboard on a genoa track.
Thanks Again 
Thanks again for all the help. It has given me lots of direction. I guess the first thing is to get our local sailmaker to look at the boat. By the way, I may have exagerated abit on the 20 degree but it was surely 10-15 degrees difference. The first day we tried the best "heading" approach. Day 2 and 3 we tried the the VMG (although this needs more work) approach. And of course I need alot more experience !!! Richard
Thanks again for all the help. It has given me lots of direction. I guess the first thing is to get our local sailmaker to look at the boat. By the way, I may have exagerated abit on the 20 degree but it was surely 10-15 degrees difference. The first day we tried the best "heading" approach. Day 2 and 3 we tried the the VMG (although this needs more work) approach. And of course I need alot more experience !!! Richard
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