Moving up from H26, considering purchase of 91 Vision-32. Unstayed mast seems a little radical, but I have never sailed this boat before. I would welcome any opinions and any specific areas of concern that I should look for. Seems this boat is extremely slow in <15 knot winds. Plan on coastal cruising and long range plans(1/2 years) heading south to Fla. in ICW and then to the islands with my wife.
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Reviews are mixed on light winds
Some reviewers say it is slow below 10 knots, others 15, others claim good speed in 7-10 knots. The unstayed mast is a great, and (by now) proven design that has low market acceptance. So you could expect good value for money. I'd buy an asymetric to boost performance in light winds, and strike it between 10 and 15 knots. David Lady Lillie
Some reviewers say it is slow below 10 knots, others 15, others claim good speed in 7-10 knots. The unstayed mast is a great, and (by now) proven design that has low market acceptance. So you could expect good value for money. I'd buy an asymetric to boost performance in light winds, and strike it between 10 and 15 knots. David Lady Lillie
Great Choice
I moved up from a 25'Catalina in Oct to an 89 Vision, and WOW! Picked it up in St. Augustine, took the IC to Port Evergades then open water all the way through the Keys to Port Charlotte. Fought head winds almost every day, 5-8' seas off Naples, millions of crab traps, 40 knot winds, and ran a ground a few times. (Backed right off) Mostly motor/sailed. Spent everynight on the boat. When we were able to sail, I thought it's performance was good. Much better than the Catalina. Main is very powerful. The large open interior is very comfortable. I plan to use it as a temporary live aboard while we move. Got a lot of good comments about the "free standing mast" from other sailors going down the East coast. We don't have a house in Port Charlotte yet, but found someone who would let us use his dock for free. Likes having a beautiful boat in back. Would not take any money. What a deal! My wife thought the Catalina was "tippy". I don't think she will have that problem with the Vision. She hasn't seen the Vision yet. Let me buy it without her looking at it. Her first sail will be the end of the month.
I moved up from a 25'Catalina in Oct to an 89 Vision, and WOW! Picked it up in St. Augustine, took the IC to Port Evergades then open water all the way through the Keys to Port Charlotte. Fought head winds almost every day, 5-8' seas off Naples, millions of crab traps, 40 knot winds, and ran a ground a few times. (Backed right off) Mostly motor/sailed. Spent everynight on the boat. When we were able to sail, I thought it's performance was good. Much better than the Catalina. Main is very powerful. The large open interior is very comfortable. I plan to use it as a temporary live aboard while we move. Got a lot of good comments about the "free standing mast" from other sailors going down the East coast. We don't have a house in Port Charlotte yet, but found someone who would let us use his dock for free. Likes having a beautiful boat in back. Would not take any money. What a deal! My wife thought the Catalina was "tippy". I don't think she will have that problem with the Vision. She hasn't seen the Vision yet. Let me buy it without her looking at it. Her first sail will be the end of the month.
Tim, there's guys here who love 'em, not me!
You said it, with the 'slow' comment. The only thing going for a cat rig is simplicity.
You said it, with the 'slow' comment. The only thing going for a cat rig is simplicity.
Performance?
I have been on a few of these but never sailed one. The accomodations looked comfortable. Last year I had the pleasure of sailing up wind next to one of these while on my h34. All I can say is don't buy it if you want to sail up wind and compete with boats of a similiar size. With the dodger up towing a dingy I went by it in a hurry closer to the wind at higher speed.
I have been on a few of these but never sailed one. The accomodations looked comfortable. Last year I had the pleasure of sailing up wind next to one of these while on my h34. All I can say is don't buy it if you want to sail up wind and compete with boats of a similiar size. With the dodger up towing a dingy I went by it in a hurry closer to the wind at higher speed.
Thoughts on Vision 32
My wife and I bought a 1990 Vision 32 after moving out to the Puget Sound from the Chesapeake. We've had the boat for several years now and love it. It is so much boat for 32 feet and in my experience the performance is quite good. It took me a while to get used to such a large main and small jib/genoa, but it is amazing how easy it is to sail AND sail well. Without the stays you no longer worry about whether the main is rubbing on the rigging, nor do you have to worry about rebedding the thru-deck fittings to accomodate the rigging. Additionally, walking on the side decks is easier as well. It's funny, we've looked at larger boats since (of course) and it's now funny to look up and see all of that rigging up there... ;-) I would completely disagree with the comments regarding the boat being slow. I admit it does seem a little "hesitant" in air less than ~8 knots, but once over that, the boat just screams. I usually put the first reef in around 15 knots and the second in above about 22-23 knots. I use the jib/genoa when pointing (we have a 110 and a 150), but don't usually bother downwind because the main is the driving force. When we really feel like a rush, I throw up the tri-radial spinnaker and we absolutely fly! I remember an awesome run down the sound from Port Townsend to Edmonds on a single tack (despite a slight course change at Point No Point) in about 15-20 knots. IIRC, our main is about 440sqft and the spinnaker is ~500sqft...nice. ;-) It's funny, as soon as people in our sailing club found out we had one, I had numerous people volunteer to crew and potential competitors trying to give us a low rating! ;-) For comparison, I was originally after a Hunter 34 because I liked the performance and accomodations of my in-laws' H34. However, now that I've had a Vision32, I would be hard-pressed to even think about a Hunter 34. They are good boats, but with the accomodations, features, and performance of the V32, I don't think there is any comparison... In fact, if and when we decide to go one larger, we were at first convinced the 37.5 was the way to go, but with a Vision 36 out there as well, it makes the decision a little more interesting! ;-) As for problem areas, we haven't really had any. I think the standard bow roller arrangement is less than desirable and the single line reefing has it's downsides, although overall I haven't encountered any problems of consequence. Nice queen sized aft berth, nice big head, workable galley, and large salon make weekends and holidays quite pleasant. The V-berth is a little on the small size, but they all seem small to me and we only use it to stash stuff anyway! ;-) Anyway, just some opinions to consider... Good luck, matt
My wife and I bought a 1990 Vision 32 after moving out to the Puget Sound from the Chesapeake. We've had the boat for several years now and love it. It is so much boat for 32 feet and in my experience the performance is quite good. It took me a while to get used to such a large main and small jib/genoa, but it is amazing how easy it is to sail AND sail well. Without the stays you no longer worry about whether the main is rubbing on the rigging, nor do you have to worry about rebedding the thru-deck fittings to accomodate the rigging. Additionally, walking on the side decks is easier as well. It's funny, we've looked at larger boats since (of course) and it's now funny to look up and see all of that rigging up there... ;-) I would completely disagree with the comments regarding the boat being slow. I admit it does seem a little "hesitant" in air less than ~8 knots, but once over that, the boat just screams. I usually put the first reef in around 15 knots and the second in above about 22-23 knots. I use the jib/genoa when pointing (we have a 110 and a 150), but don't usually bother downwind because the main is the driving force. When we really feel like a rush, I throw up the tri-radial spinnaker and we absolutely fly! I remember an awesome run down the sound from Port Townsend to Edmonds on a single tack (despite a slight course change at Point No Point) in about 15-20 knots. IIRC, our main is about 440sqft and the spinnaker is ~500sqft...nice. ;-) It's funny, as soon as people in our sailing club found out we had one, I had numerous people volunteer to crew and potential competitors trying to give us a low rating! ;-) For comparison, I was originally after a Hunter 34 because I liked the performance and accomodations of my in-laws' H34. However, now that I've had a Vision32, I would be hard-pressed to even think about a Hunter 34. They are good boats, but with the accomodations, features, and performance of the V32, I don't think there is any comparison... In fact, if and when we decide to go one larger, we were at first convinced the 37.5 was the way to go, but with a Vision 36 out there as well, it makes the decision a little more interesting! ;-) As for problem areas, we haven't really had any. I think the standard bow roller arrangement is less than desirable and the single line reefing has it's downsides, although overall I haven't encountered any problems of consequence. Nice queen sized aft berth, nice big head, workable galley, and large salon make weekends and holidays quite pleasant. The V-berth is a little on the small size, but they all seem small to me and we only use it to stash stuff anyway! ;-) Anyway, just some opinions to consider... Good luck, matt
Love it!
I love the rig on my H320 and wouldn't hesitate to buy another...in fact at this point I prefer the rig. Actually it give great performance once you know how to adjust the rig, particularly in any range other than directly down wind. But then again if you want downwind performance you should fly the A/S any. While there are clearly differences in sailboat performance, like any boat, it's whether you know how to use what you have. For my money, whatever reduction in performance someone might think I have with the rig it's worth not having to deal with the backstay...and I'm told that the boat looks prettier from its flanks buy all those sailors I leave behind me!
I love the rig on my H320 and wouldn't hesitate to buy another...in fact at this point I prefer the rig. Actually it give great performance once you know how to adjust the rig, particularly in any range other than directly down wind. But then again if you want downwind performance you should fly the A/S any. While there are clearly differences in sailboat performance, like any boat, it's whether you know how to use what you have. For my money, whatever reduction in performance someone might think I have with the rig it's worth not having to deal with the backstay...and I'm told that the boat looks prettier from its flanks buy all those sailors I leave behind me!
Performance Reality
In addition to seeing reviews from loyal owners who claim to have great performance consider reviewing the PHRF base handicap ratings for vessels you are interested in (for an unbiased opinion). In New England the base handicap for the V32 is 171. This number is higher than other production boats in the same size range indicatinng it is SLOWER. The V32 rates (171) about the same as a Tartan 30, Catalina 30 (TM). For comparison the Beneteau 32 is 135, Catalina 32 is 153, C&C 32 is 159, Hunter 34 is 138. This confirms previous statements I made. Nice boat if you're not in a hurry. I'd also be concerned about resale value but the price for a used one seems reasonable
In addition to seeing reviews from loyal owners who claim to have great performance consider reviewing the PHRF base handicap ratings for vessels you are interested in (for an unbiased opinion). In New England the base handicap for the V32 is 171. This number is higher than other production boats in the same size range indicatinng it is SLOWER. The V32 rates (171) about the same as a Tartan 30, Catalina 30 (TM). For comparison the Beneteau 32 is 135, Catalina 32 is 153, C&C 32 is 159, Hunter 34 is 138. This confirms previous statements I made. Nice boat if you're not in a hurry. I'd also be concerned about resale value but the price for a used one seems reasonable
Notwithstanding Daryl's Comments
...the boat is a good one. Good sails will make a big difference in performance and you can lay in some more jib overlap. Note especially a lot of the negative comments come from people who have never sailed one. Daryl's comment about PHRF is appropriate, and I think comparing it to a Catalina 30 from a performance standpoint is correct. That's not the worst comparison in the world. I owned one for nine years. It was the best boat I owned. It sailed just fine. The subsequent owner put new tape drive sails on it and races. He does pretty well, but it won't beat a made-to-race boat. Just to be objective about it, take the link to the 2003 Newport to Ensenada race results. Look to cruising class, GB. Look for the seventh place finisher, Attitude Adjustment'. Note the elapsed time (unadjusted). Then compare that with others. You will see it made a swift trip and finished well ahead of boats in the racing categories. It does take some new mind sets to sail the boat well. I suspect some of the speed comments originate from the way the boat was sailed rather than from its potential.
...the boat is a good one. Good sails will make a big difference in performance and you can lay in some more jib overlap. Note especially a lot of the negative comments come from people who have never sailed one. Daryl's comment about PHRF is appropriate, and I think comparing it to a Catalina 30 from a performance standpoint is correct. That's not the worst comparison in the world. I owned one for nine years. It was the best boat I owned. It sailed just fine. The subsequent owner put new tape drive sails on it and races. He does pretty well, but it won't beat a made-to-race boat. Just to be objective about it, take the link to the 2003 Newport to Ensenada race results. Look to cruising class, GB. Look for the seventh place finisher, Attitude Adjustment'. Note the elapsed time (unadjusted). Then compare that with others. You will see it made a swift trip and finished well ahead of boats in the racing categories. It does take some new mind sets to sail the boat well. I suspect some of the speed comments originate from the way the boat was sailed rather than from its potential.
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