VHF SWR results...

[BAD ORCA]

So I think I have a problem. I just bought the meter and according to the limited info on the web, It should work right out of the box.

The results below are from my test at 25 watts. From everything I have been able to learn so far, I should have a reading of somewhere in the range of 1:1.5 or for this meter, I believe i should see a reading of ideally 1.5 or lower on the display. My reading is clearly nowhere in the ballpark. I'm not seeing anything in the manual or online that suggests I have a setting thats wrong or has been altered on the meter.

Clearly my transmission power is not getting out as well and it seems a lot is bouncing back. I'm guessing it would just be a connector issue? The Antenna is a standard marine VHF antennna so i cant imagine would be an issue.

I ordered good quality crimp on connectors and a proper crimp tool. Three of the four connectors are inside the boat an easily accessible. I'm guessing I should start there. Hopefully its not the mast top connector Thanks for the previous advice in other thread to check with SWR meter. I'm glad I did...

This is the VHF I have.

Welcome to StandardHorizon.com

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Don’t worry about the output power - it could be a transceiver fault or simply a result of the high SWR which causes the transceiver protection circuit to cut back power. That should resolve once you deal with the SWR. which is the bigger issue. It should be close to 1:1.

The coax PL 259 connectors are one possible source of this problem. Water in the coax could be another cause. Or a fault in the antenna base loading coil could also be the culprit. Absent pulling everything, we can only guess which. Only thing for certain - you have some problem which will severely limit communications.

 

[jssailem]

I agree that the info looks like there is a loss of power.
To be sure, it is your boat system and not the newly purchased equipment.

Why not visit with a dock friend and see what is happening on his/her VHF radio? Of course, there is a transactional risk to this idea. You may find that their equipment is bad, and they may blame you.

It is always the messenger that gets the blame.

 

[jssailem]

When adding those PL 259 connectors to your wires, it is easy to misplace one of the strands of the ground wire wrap, which can create a short problem.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

When adding those PL 259 connectors to your wires, it is easy to misplace one of the strands of the ground wire wrap, which can create a short problem.

Good point which is why it’s always a good idea to check continuity between the braid and inner coax conductor prior to installation. However, a short would likely show as an infinite SWR except in very long runs but always good to check to be sure.

 

[BAD ORCA]

Ok, good to know, thanks for advice. I will have new connectors this coming week and will work backwards from the radio to the mast top. Luckily the boom and sails are still off so can go aloft easily enough if i have to before finishing the mast project. I did seal the connector to the antenna very well with good quality adhesive lined heatshrink, but was lying awake last night thinking i should have squeezed some dialectric grease under the heatshrink. It has been raining a lot here lately so hope no water got in.

 

[jssailem]

Fun is swinging from the top of a 50ft mast trying to solder or crimp a PL259 connector on a short length of coax in a 20 knot breeze.

 

[jssailem]

But that was back when I was twenty.

 

[Mark Maulden]

After assembly, give the coax a good push-pull test at each connector and make sure it does not move in or out. I was assembling my ham HF antenna coax and ran into this situation. The connector mfgr did not cut the backshell threads far enough so the backshell tightened before fully seating the center and shield..Amphenol connectors. The best and have used them personally/professionally. Now made in China….

 

[sailcapt340]

You mentioned questioning your soldering technique in your other post. And getting new PL259’s. Are they the crimp/solder style? Was it Rosin Core solder?

What type of soldering iron are you using? Will it deliver high enough temperature to the small cup end of the PL259?
I recently added my crimp/solder style to my LMR400 cable for my VHF relocation project. Even under the best of conditions, as mine was inside the cabin, the cable still moves hindering the soldering.

Check out this link from DXenginnering: He does a great job of explaining the entire process of crimp/solder.

Attaching a PL-259 crimp & solder connector from DX Engineering - Long Version.

It looks like your starting over again from your description above, so it can’t hurt to check it out.

 

[BAD ORCA]

After assembly, give the coax a good push-pull test at each connector and make sure it does not move in or out. I was assembling my ham HF antenna coax and ran into this situation. The connector mfgr did not cut the backshell threads far enough so the backshell tightened before fully seating the center and shield..Amphenol connectors. The best and have used them personally/professionally. Now made in China….

This is interesting you say this because i was having a very hard time getting the threads inside the connectors to thread over the LMR-400 cable. I'm fairly confident they did not seat properly, but had no mre connectors and did not know how critical it was. The connectors were sold to be used with that particular cable. Maybe it was something I was doing incorrect but I dont think so. I think one in particular maybe only seated 80-90%. The copper center wire did protrude though from the front where i soldered it and cut it back. I'm just not sure if the sheilding was pushed all the way to the front of the inside of the connector.

 

[jssailem]

@sailcapt340 nice video. Fun to have all the tools and work space to do a sweet-neat electronics wire job.

None of the slap it together hanging from a pole 50ft in the breezy air working conditions.

It is why I put my cable together with the mast in the yard at 4ft above the ground. The prepared cable installed in the mast and attached to the antenna, we raised the mast, ran the raw cable into the boat. Slapped the cable on the salon table and broke out the tools to finish the radio end pl259 connector.

Make a plan, work the plan, finish with a

 

[BAD ORCA]

You mentioned questioning your soldering technique in your other post. And getting new PL259’s. Are they the crimp/solder style? Was it Rosin Core solder?
View attachment 230106
What type of soldering iron are you using? Will it deliver high enough temperature to the small cup end of the PL259?
I recently added my crimp/solder style to my LMR400 cable for my VHF relocation project. Even under the best of conditions, as mine was inside the cabin, the cable still moves hindering the soldering.

Check out this link from DXenginnering: He does a great job of explaining the entire process of crimp/solder.
View attachment 230107
Attaching a PL-259 crimp & solder connector from DX Engineering - Long Version.

It looks like your starting over again from your description above, so it can’t hurt to check it out.

The connectors were these type https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-pl259-6 so no crimps.

Solder Flux=https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008ZIV85A?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

Solder=Amazon.com

Soldering Iron=Amazon.com

I brushed the sheilding cable and copper inner core wires with flux, assembled the fitting and then tried heating up the shield core wire through the holes in the connector trying to get the solder to flow through the holes in the connector and saturate the sheild core. I had very limited success doing this. It seemed like the soldering iron got the cable way too hot but the solder still would not flow. The cable got so hot it started getting a bit softened. I dont think much solder actually made it into the braided shield and instead mostly just clumped up around the solder holes. It definitely did make contact with the shield wire just not very much contact. I also saturated the copper core wire with solder and trimmed it back flush with the end of the connector as Mainesail describes in his article on his website.

 

[sailcapt340]

You have a good iron, capable of 850F +. I think you would have better results with better solder and no paste.
Rosin core solder.

I have some photos of my 4” test piece in the shop. I just took for you to see, It should show the steps. Minus the actual crimping and soldering. But the video will show the full process better than still photos.
Bear in mind this piece has had its share of testing so its not as clean as the real coax on the boat once cut and stripped.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

A 40W soldering iron isnt A good choice. It doesn’t have the ability to quickly heat the outer shell. As a result, it slowly heats everything thereby possibly melting the dielectric.

What you described about the entire assembly melting is indicative of this flaw.

I have a soldering iron similar to what is referenced but only use my Weller 200 W iron for PL 259s which works well.

 

[BAD ORCA]

Ok...yeah after watching that video, I can see why i'm having issues. Time to get serious and do these correctly. Sadly, i'm guessing it also means the one at the top of the mast needs re-doing as well.

 

[sailcapt340]

I really hope and pray for your sake thats not the case up there.
Like John said…under perfect conditions you get a nice clean sweet job. 50 feet up??
Mainesail‘s technique is great and he even shows a stray wire that can cause all kinds of havoc.
In your cabin, the correction is easy, and under controlled conditions.
Maybe being up the mast in a lift bucket would would be the best option, if needed. Let‘s hope not.
My advice….stay calm, take your time with the inside redo and test again.

 

[jssailem]

I brushed the sheilding cable and copper inner core wires with flux,

The shielding cable does not need to be soldered.
The shielding is crimped to the outside of the PL259. That is all that is needed.
Just watch for any stray wire from the shield. You do not want that near or touching the inner core copper wire.
The long video does a great job of explaining the technique.

The solder is only the core copper wire sitting in the center of the PL259 connector. As you watch the video, the solder gun applies heat to the copper wire and the center pin of the PL259 connector. The copper absorbs the heat and draws the solder to it. The heat on the pin makes the connection solid.

You got this. Because no one gets a soldered connection correct the first time, they send a couple of connectors in the bag.

 

[BAD ORCA]

I really hope and pray for your sake thats not the case up there.
Like John said…under perfect conditions you get a nice clean sweet job. 50 feet up??
Mainesail‘s technique is great and he even shows a stray wire that can cause all kinds of havoc.
In your cabin, the correction is easy, and under controlled conditions.
Maybe being up the mast in a lift bucket would would be the best option, if needed. Let‘s hope not.
My advice….stay calm, take your time with the inside redo and test again.

Ha! thanks. Well i'll start from inside and re-test after each connector is replaced. Maybe i will get lucky and only need to redo one or two.

 

[colemj]

Yeah, it is a bear to correctly solder the shield of LMR400 without damaging the foam dialectric. I only use crimp/solder connectors for this. Actually I solely use them now for everything because I've never produced a bad one, or had one go bad in use.

Do you have a dummy load? One is very useful for troubleshooting, as you can just walk the system backward until you find the problem.

One thing you can do is disconnect the coax from the radio, go up the mast and disconnect from the antenna and check for a short up there. If you have a break in the coax before going up the mast, then also check there.

If you need to replace the connector up the mast and are having problems soldering the center connector, there are center pin crimp connectors that don't require soldering. I'd choose the crimp/solder connector over that for more robustness, but it will work better than a bad solder job.

Mark