VHF knuckleheads

[joe newman]

uscg acts fast

the closest uscg station to my home port (fort macon/beaufort,nc) is about forty miles. if you say anything on channel 16 other than a distress call, they break in instantly and tell you to get off channel 16 now!

 

[Steve Kamp]

VHF hailing and response

My 63rd edition of Chapman's has it highlighted in a blue sidebar on page 554: "Bluejay..Bluejay, this is Desolate,over.""Desolate, this is Bluejay, over.""Bluejay,this is Desolate. Switch to six eight""Roger Desolate, this is Bluejay, roger six eight".I too have worked with radio communication procedures all my adult life; in the Air Force to communicate from the flightline to operations, maintenance control, and aircraft to aircraft, on the railroad from brakeman to conductor and engineer and dispatcher, and in the deptarment of corrections from line officer to supervisor to control rooms to perimeter security posts. In all cases improper procedures can delay reactions, cause work to be done over, and seriously impede safety.I think an even bigger factor in poor radio technique than the CB is the development of cell phones that are used as walkie talkies. But then cell phone ettiquete is another topic."Clear the air" has multiple meanings.Steve Kamp on the H260 "Carolina Girl"

 

[Steve Kamp]

VHF license

Fred Ficarra, the license requirement for"voluntarily equipped" vessels went away when the FCC dropped the requirement in October 1996. That would place the act under the Clinton Administration's tenure.Can anyone come up with a vhf activated beer can launcher?Steve Kamp

 

[Malcolm Young C36]

VHF Certificate/Licence Requirements

I have taught the Canadian Restricted Radio Operators Certificate (Maritime) Course for quite a number of years for the local Power and Sail Squadron. We carry out testing and the government issues the operator's licence.I believe the requirements in Canada and the US are the same. In fact I lived in Europe for 5 years and Operators Certificate requirements are basically the same there as well.I believe there is confusion over radio station licencing and operator certification. In both the US and Canada the requirement for pleasure craft radio station licencing has been dropped provided that you do not sail your vessel outside the US and Canada and provided you have a voluntarily fitted VHF. Operator Certification is still required in Canada and I believe it is still required in the US. The correct calling technique is what is called symetrical calling eg. if you say the called vessels name twice you then say your vessels name twice. If the called vessel is not avidly listening for your call you should say their name 3 times in order to attract their attention and get them to listen. For example "Sunday Morning, Sunday Morning, Sunday Morning, Sunday Morning this is Cuba Libre, Cuba Libre, Cuba Libre" If you know they are listening avidly then just call their vessels name once or twice and indicate your vessels name the same number of times.The rules when followed organize things so that normal communication is efficient and when disaster occurrs you know how to communicate the required information quickly (you may be sinking!). We have done quite a bit of cruising through the Great Lakes and generally people follow the rules (less so in larger population centres). If mariners do not follow the rules it is common for the Coast Guard to remind them. I have heard other boaters do this as well.In the US who provides training/examinations for a restricted radio operators licence or the equivalent?

 

[Rich]

Bad boating education, stodgy practices contribute

Those of you who have vast experience or got your training long ago are having trouble seeing through to the root of the problem; the system of education for recreational boaters is woefully lacking. The reason why our highways today are not the insane chaos they were through the 1920's is that the government saw the importance of that mode of transportation and created rules, infrastructure, and a system of licensing and education. As a newcomer to boating I could see immediately that there are all kinds of deficiencies in how recreational boaters are educated and how the system works.In Connecticut I was required to take only a 10-hour course to get my "safe boating certificate". It was made clear in our texts that not all states even require licensing, and that our program was a standard type and length for those that do. There was no "road test", absolutely no instruction in VHF use, and only some minor confusing information on the "rules of the road". This, friends, is simply not adequate for complexity and strangeness of the task new recreational boaters are signing up for.If we believe everyone is entitled to own and operate vessels, however illiterate or unschooled they may be, and do not have a viable system of education in place to bring everyone up to a minimal skill level, then we are getting what we pay for. I have a university education and still had to dig hard to get adequate information on VHF practices--average people do not know how to do this kind of research and won't find it.But us undereducated masses are also not to blame for some of the backward practices that are foist on us from a system cobbled together by crusty military bureaucracies of the battleship age. Information about which channels are available for recreational boaters is sketchy and not easily found--non-commercial VHF radios should have a "rec" or "open" button that takes the user to the nearest open channel allowed for recreational vessels. Recreational boaters should also be officially encouraged to use the new long-range GMRS/FRS walkie-talkies for casual communication. And why on earth are people expected to look up the hours and channels of railroad bridges in some obscure government document? Sometimes the system is the problem, not the users.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

VHF license

Steve Kamp, are you a republican? I hope I didn't get your nose in a knot. As a history reminder, our hero, Bill, was the only voice of sanity in place in 1996. Both houses of congress had been taken over by the republicans. But he did issue that Executive Order, after I emailed him, that got rid of GPS diddling. Thank you folks, for the warm applause.P.S. Rich, good post.P.S.2 Malcolm, no such thing in the U.S. for VHF.

 

[Steve G]

Stu..

I hear you, and I've never favored regulations or licensing of anything as some sort of easy fix, but for cryin' out loud...The stakes can be pretty high when you need the Coasties and keep getting stepped on. I don't know about San Fran, but here in the Northeast it's an issue.As for the fakers -- The expense of a false mayday can be astronomical. Sailors can help when the CG asks all mariners who heard the initial distress call to report back, especially if they hear it on a hand-held. They draw radii around the various positions and look for points of intersection, but there could be fifty boats in that area. You're right stu, the idiots will always be there, but wouldn't it be nice just once to see the arraignment of a faker on the evening news? I hope something (enforcment etc.) can be done to help to make licensing unnecessary, but if I need help, I don't want to be stepped on by a stinkpotter who's looking for someone to raft up with.Regards, Steve

 

[Malcolm Young C36]

Fred - its amazing - you are correct

Fred now that I have your attention - it isn't amazing that you are right but it is amazing that in the US you don't have to be certified to use a Marine (or aircraft radio). I am not one to just accept someone's word on something and so I dug up the FCC requirements which prove you are right. The llink below indicates the requirments. It is amazing that something that is so important to near shore maritime safety can be operated by people who don't have a clue. Steve G. I agree 100% with you.The US FCC requirements are found: http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/rp.html

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Malcolm and Steve,

I agree with both of you.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Wait a sec...

You admit that the minimal requirements to operate a boat in your waters aren't adequate...absolutely no instruction in VHF use, and only some minor confusing information on the "rules of the road". Yet apparently decided that it was enough to allow you to operate your own boat out anyway. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Why should it be necessary for the gov't to force-feed everyone enough information to know how to use their boats and equipment on it (VHF, for instance) properly and safely? We are nation of some 300 million people...and more than 180 million registered vehicles. However, there are only about 12 million registered boats of any kind...and that even includes canoes in some states. If there were only 12 million vehicles on roads, it's unlikely that there'd be any more mandated system of educating vehicle drivers than than there is for educating boat "drivers." Those drivers who assume personal responsibility for their own safety and that of others would have do what boat owners SHOULD do: take the reponsibility for getting some quality "driver ed" themselves! There are plenty of good thorough boating safety courses offered by the CG Aux and US Power Squadron that teach everything from the "Rules of the Road" to proper VHF use, piloting, offshore navigation, basic weather, even how to tie the most useful knots and hitches. So what's stopping you from taking one or more of 'em instead of blaming the government for failing to force you do it?

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Simple Peggie

we're perfect, we don't need it. It's the other guys that we're bitching about.

 

[Steve G]

Peggie...

Are you saying that because I bring my boat out on the same ocean as these numbskulls that I should share in the blame, the responsibility?Will my taking a driver's ed course stop a drunk from crossing the center line and whacking me?I and my family have taken the required courses and I have taken advanced ones. My wife and kids (11 and 13) know the rules of the road and can use a VHF properly should the need arise. I'm certain that even my youngest could get the boat to safety should I become disabled. I think I have the right to complain when MY FAMILY'S safety is jeopordized needlessly.As for the govt force feeding? To break it down to brass tacks, I don't care - its an important tool and people should use it properly - end of story.

 

[R.W.Landau]

Rich, the used to be...

Rich,I was on the rivers of Pittsburgh from an early age( born in 53 on the boat in 54 and started remembering things about 60)I have been on boats a long time. I guess I first started realizing the blessing in about 1960 or so. On the rivers in Pittsburgh, few people boated at the time I would say that we (my family)knew just about everyone that boated in Pool 2 of the Alleghany River.The thing I remember is that all most everyone took boating seriously. They had all taken safe boating courses or were apart of the local Power Squadron. Not because it was required but because it was the right thing to do.Today, people do what they can do with minimal direction. It has made the Alleghany River a place I don't go.Rich if you bought a boat ...TAKE a course to learn to keep you and your family safe. (You can't do everything on the Net.)That will keep me safer also.Steve, I agree with you. You are a knowlegable boater.... what do YOU do about non educated or non experienced boater? You made a case, state your position.Peggie.... As always your experience, wisdom, and intelligence shows through. I hope you do not enbrace Fred's political views....Love you Fred (from a past fued)I chose the republican idea of seeking education because it is the right thing to do before it is legislated by the other party.r.w.landau

 

[Peggie Hall/HeadMistress]

What I'm saying is...

Its not up to the government to protect us from every fool including ourselves, it's up to us. We don't need more government control...what we do need is more people who take responsibility for their own lives. I've been dodging fools on the water and the roads for longer than you've prob'ly been out of diapers. And in that time I've learned that we cannot control the actions of others. Gov't mandated licensing has not succeeded in getting every fool and drunk off the roads...it won't succeed in getting every fool and drunk off the water. All it will do is create one more gov't beauracracy, funded by more taxpayers than never have and never will own boats than those who do...that will soon only exist to ensure its own survival...but accomplish little or nothing when it comes to getting drunks off the water or guaranteeing that everyone on the water is a safe responsble operator.You can have a society in which every breath we draw is controlled by some gov't agency...I just pray to God that society never exists in this country.

 

[Wanderer138]

The basic flaw with personal responsibility

...is the word "personal", i.e.it's left to the individual to decide. Personal opinions being what they are (and everybody has one), it's not surprising that we end up with those people who care enough to learn how to operate safely and courteously on our waterways and just as many who not only couldn't care less but also rejoice in their "right" to do so. What ever happened to the responsibility that went along with each right?And not to go off on a rant here but the highways aren't much better. Just my two cents.PeterH23 "Raven"

 

[R.W.Landau]

Good point Peter...

Back in the 60's ,70's etc people were not afraid to tell someone that they should seek education to operate their boat because they had responsibilities. ( on a river, one of the big things is responsibility for your wake.) Today it is politically incorrect to tell someone they should take boating classes ( not just the minimal), you may offend the new boat owner. r.w.landau

 

[Tom s/v GAIA]

what happened to personal responsibility?

John Doe buys a ladder, sets it up wrong, falls off breaks his neck calls a lawyer sues the ladder maker, and wins 2 million dollars. when did that sort of thing become ok? What happened to "I was stupid, I made a mistake I'll have to live with it." You are the person responsible for your education. If you don't want that responsibility you shouldn't be in the gene pool. THAT is the end of the story.Toms/v GAIA

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Peggie, we're close

But before I get into that, a kiss and hug for R.W. Here XO.  Back to my point Peggie. Have you tried to build a house lately? Have you tried to by a car?,,a step ladder?,,voted?,,,driven down the road or installed a new well (for water)? The bureaucrats even have that controlled. Don't even ask if a water maker is OK for your house. That's too new. And it's a threat to their power and control. I could go on for hours! Oh no, wait,,that was for the EPA,,,

 

[Tom S.]

Peggie, but if the idiots don't want to learn

and there is no legislation saying that they should, then they might endanger me ! How is that possible? Well I might have a real MAYDAY and they might be squawking on CH 16 talking about trading recipies, or fishing or their Aunt Sally, while I have a real emergency and possibly only have a few minutes to transmit all my information (e.g. On board fires can sometimes only take a short time before one has to abandon ship --another reason to have a handheld as backup) .OR if they are out chasing a fake MAYDAY and a real one occurs then the resources for a real MAYDAY are severely affected (Not to mention the astronomical costs to all tax payers)OMG. Did I just write that we should possible legislate something else for boating.....Damn I take it back I want less regulation and MORE enforcement and LARGE fines and a "Special One" for parents that let their little children play with the radio for a half an hour singing "Mary had a little lamb". Where are those boat owners !!ps. Does everyone also know that if you have the power on for the VHF that it IS the law to monitor CH 16. BUT it isn't the law to keep the power on the VHF *o

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

No law will make idiots want to learn, Tom

No one, nor any law, can make anyone change who doesn't want to change. That's the fallacy in the thinking of those who push for more and more government regulation...they're pushing their OWN agendae...trying to change OTHER people to suit them...to exert control over OTHER people's lives. It can't be done...no one can change anyone else, truly have any control over anyone else's (except children) behavior unless that person wants to change...the only person any of us have any control over is ourselves. Anyone who doesn't want to change will just find away to get around the changes you expect of 'em. A few will occasionally pay a price for doing it...but most will usually get away with it. There are only two solutions to idiots on the water: get off the water yourself, or change your own behavior and expectations to whatever degree is necessary to co-exist with 'em....same as you have to do on the streets and highways and everywhere else.