ventilation

[Ross]

I spent several hours inspecting a Pearson 30 yesterday and was overwhemed by the smell of mold on the boat. I realized that the source was the space between the hull and the liner. There is no access to that space so there is no way to clean it. I believe that installing small computer type fans in several places in the liner throughout the boat and driving them with a dedicated solar panel and installing a couple of cowl vents with active fans would keep the boat well ventilated and sweet smelling.

 

[woodster]

I spent several hours inspecting a Pearson 30 yesterday and was overwhemed by the smell of mold on the boat. I realized that the source was the space between the hull and the liner. There is no access to that space so there is no way to clean it. I believe that installing small computer type fans in several places in the liner throughout the boat and driving them with a dedicated solar panel and installing a couple of cowl vents with active fans would keep the boat well ventilated and sweet smelling.

just wondering here...if that mold is not removed or killed off ...wont it regenerate it self and create more of the same.....i am under the impression that it is just like yeast...very self renewing.....

regards

woody

 

[RichH]

Woodster is probably correct.

It doesnt take much for a fungal to grow in 'hidden' and unaccessible places. Drying it out will only cause it to go dormant only to restart its growth cycle when the conditions are correct.

I had the same problem many years ago on my P30.
1. Use a caustic detergent on all the visible areas ... caustics will dissolve the fungal cells. Acids (vinegar, etc.) will only kill the fungals ... and leave the dead cells behind to become the nutrient source for other species of fungals - exception is precise mixtures of peracetic acid and hydrogen peroxide which will kill 'everything' when sprayed or fogged on.

2. Spritz the caustic into and UNDER the floor pan and behind the cabin panels, etc.

3. Thoroughly CLEAN every square inch of interior space (including engine spaces, lazarrette, etc. under the floor pan over the bilge) before long term storing the boat.

4. Obtain PARAFORMALDEHYDE crystals and put into a dish-like container on the flooring before closing the boat. Paraformaldehyde will off-gas and the vapor will seep into all the teeny cracks and crevices to kill the remaining fungal. ParaF is poisonous to human lung tissue too, so hold your breath when the ParaF container is open. When opening the boat (spring time, etc.) open the boat but do not go inside until the boat completely 'airs out', then go below while holding your breath and remove any remaining ParaF, etc.

5. Look for 'special areas' of rot that are common on P30s that may be the propagation source of the fungal: compression post base/tabbing in the shallow bilge, deck at the areas of the stancheon bases, cockpit locker lids (leakey hardware). Also specific to the P30 is the 'water' tank - its vent opens into the anchor locker !!!!! .... the vent line on most P30s will be horrendously infected with fungals. Recommend to entirely replace the vent, relocate the exit to a CLEAN space and also to cover the open end of the vent with either a biological blockiing vent filter or at least a simple 'wad' of taped on bandage cotton.

6. MOST IMPORTANT ... many fungal species are extremely toxic to human respiratory tracts. Never 'clean' any fungus/mold/mildew when it is dry - that can release zillions of microscopic spores; only clean after 'soaking' with water, etc. Wear a respirator, wear tight fitting goggles.

7. Prevention of 're-infection'.
Most fungal spores thrive in acidic environment. If you wipe the boats interior surfaces vinegar, yes you will kill/stun some of the fungals, but you leave the surface 'primed' for reinfection later on. A better way to prevent future infestations is to use a caustic detergent in a spray bottle, spritz on all non-wood, non-varnished, non-painted surfaces and simply let dry. Spores will not propagate on 'alkaline'/caustic surfaces .... so spraying on 'caustics' will be the modern equivalent of 'whitewashing': what our ancestors did for millennia to prevent fungals/mold/mildews.

 

[Ross]

Woodster is right of course an annilation is the best approach. Ventilation will help to avoid the conditions that promote the growth of mildew. I have a headache today from the exposure to the mold spores yesterday.
RichH, thanks for the details on annilation of mold infestation.

 

[smoothsailing]

peracetic acid and hydrogen peroxide

What is the ratio of peracetic acid and hydrogen peroxide?

Bill

Woodster is probably correct.

It doesnt take much for a fungal to grow in 'hidden' and unaccessible places. Drying it out will only cause it to go dormant only to restart its growth cycle when the conditions are correct.

I had the same problem many years ago on my P30.
1. Use a caustic detergent on all the visible areas ... caustics will dissolve the fungal cells. Acids (vinegar, etc.) will only kill the fungals ... and leave the dead cells behind to become the nutrient source for other species of fungals - exception is precise mixtures of peracetic acid and hydrogen peroxide which will kill 'everything' when sprayed or fogged on.

2. Spritz the caustic into and UNDER the floor pan and behind the cabin panels, etc.

3. Thoroughly CLEAN every square inch of interior space (including engine spaces, lazarrette, etc. under the floor pan over the bilge) before long term storing the boat.

4. Obtain PARAFORMALDEHYDE crystals and put into a dish-like container on the flooring before closing the boat. Paraformaldehyde will off-gas and the vapor will seep into all the teeny cracks and crevices to kill the remaining fungal. ParaF is poisonous to human lung tissue too, so hold your breath when the ParaF container is open. When opening the boat (spring time, etc.) open the boat but do not go inside until the boat completely 'airs out', then go below while holding your breath and remove any remaining ParaF, etc.

5. Look for 'special areas' of rot that are common on P30s that may be the propagation source of the fungal: compression post base/tabbing in the shallow bilge, deck at the areas of the stancheon bases, cockpit locker lids (leakey hardware). Also specific to the P30 is the 'water' tank - its vent opens into the anchor locker !!!!! .... the vent line on most P30s will be horrendously infected with fungals. Recommend to entirely replace the vent, relocate the exit to a CLEAN space and also to cover the open end of the vent with either a biological blockiing vent filter or at least a simple 'wad' of taped on bandage cotton.

6. MOST IMPORTANT ... many fungal species are extremely toxic to human respiratory tracts. Never 'clean' any fungus/mold/mildew when it is dry - that can release zillions of microscopic spores; only clean after 'soaking' with water, etc. Wear a respirator, wear tight fitting goggles.

7. Prevention of 're-infection'.
Most fungal spores thrive in acidic environment. If you wipe the boats interior surfaces vinegar, yes you will kill/stun some of the fungals, but you leave the surface 'primed' for reinfection later on. A better way to prevent future infestations is to use a caustic detergent in a spray bottle, spritz on all non-wood, non-varnished, non-painted surfaces and simply let dry. Spores will not propagate on 'alkaline'/caustic surfaces .... so spraying on 'caustics' will be the modern equivalent of 'whitewashing': what our ancestors did for millennia to prevent fungals/mold/mildews.

 

[RichH]

What is the ratio of peracetic acid and hydrogen peroxide?

Bill

Component w/w [%]
Hydrogen Peroxide 20-24%
Peracetic Acid 4-6%
Acetic Acid 8-10%

Requires usage of proprietary 'dip sticks' for assay of flushing/dilution for usage in water, etc. systems.

Commercial Product ID: "MinnCare"

 

[NancyD]

Are there any common cleaning products (from grocery store or Home Depot) that are "caustic" and suitable for getting rid of fungus growth?

 

[FourPoints]

I have had good luck with Tilex Mold and Mildew remover, both the with and without bleach versions., the active ingredieant is Sodium Hypochlorite (2.4%) It is available in most grocery and drug stores... I use it on the boat usually once each season to clean up the cockpit, and find it is safe on gelcoat and fiberglass, and does an incredible job at cleaning them up from the little black mildew spots that form over the winter / spring under hatch covers or shaded spots. Once application is normally enough to keep things looking clean all season.

Cleaning lady bought a bottle of Lysol Mildew Remover w/Bleach recently, the label says the active ingredieant is the same, but a little diluted, Sodium Hypochlorite (2.0%)...

 

[dhays]

4. Obtain PARAFORMALDEHYDE crystals and put into a dish-like container on the flooring before closing the boat. Paraformaldehyde will off-gas and the vapor will seep into all the teeny cracks and crevices to kill the remaining fungal. ParaF is poisonous to human lung tissue too, so hold your breath when the ParaF container is open. When opening the boat (spring time, etc.) open the boat but do not go inside until the boat completely 'airs out', then go below while holding your breath and remove any remaining ParaF, etc.

Don't the Paraformaldehyde crystals have to be heated to release the gaseous formaldehyde which is actually the disinfectant? (it has been way too many years since my chemistry lab courses).

Dave

 

[GreenGorilla]

Mold specialist

Be extremely carefull with anything containing bleach, both the EPA and OSHA have papers out recommending you NOT use bleach on mold. It does not work and is toxic to people. As long as you are able to get liquids to flow over the affected area there are chemicals that can kill the mold down to the hyphae (Roots). The other concern I have with some of the acids that are often used is the damage they can cause if released into the watershed system. In the remediation business there are products that are safe to use on the water and kill mold down the the roots and do not pose any health risk to people, no off gassing or lung damage from exposure. The RI Marine Trade Association has published an article on some marine safe products, I would be happy to forward you a copy of the article.
Good luck. Also in the RIMTA article is infomation on an EPA registered mold inhibitor, which will keep the mold from returning.

 

[MrBill_FLL]

any opinions on ozone generators?

 

[zeehag]

vinegar does kill the mold and prevents the environment from supporting growth of the spores. cheap and simple.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Ozone

any opinions on ozone generators?

A one-time ozone treatment by a professional can be the best way to deal with a boat that's so saturated with mold that it would be impractical, if not impossible, to get rid of it any other way. However...

Ongoing use of ozone generators on a boat is a BAD idea for several reasons:

[FONT=&quot]According to the EPA, “Available scientific evidence shows that, at concentrations that do not exceed public health standards, ozone is generally ineffective in controlling indoor air pollution. The concentration of ozone would have to greatly exceed health standards to be effective in removing most indoor air contaminants. In the process of reacting with chemicals indoors, ozone can produce other chemicals that can be irritating and corrosive.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]As for how well the portable ozone generators work when it comes to getting rid of odors… yes, people who’ve bought them rave do about how well they work. And, yes, the manufacturers do assure you that the ozone concentration is well below that which can present any health hazard. But if that's true, they can't deliver enough ozone to destroy the sources of any odors. If they did deliver enough ozone to destroy the sources of odors molds, etc., it should only be necessary to run one occasionally. But among all the people you know who’ve bought ozone generators, have you ever met anyone who has one who's ever been able to turn if off without having odors return? That should be enough to tell you that ozone generators are only very expensive air fresheners, because they don't deliver enough ozone to be anything else. Save your money and get rid of the SOURCES of your odors. Eliminating the source is the only thing that really works.
[/FONT]


So by all means, have a professional ozone "treatment" to get of mold, mildew etc...but then you need to prevent new mold.


[FONT=&quot]Fresh air and sunlight are the most effective enemies of molds and mildew, but there isn’t much of either one in a closed up cabin. So you want to allow the air that is available to circulate in every nook and cranny. When closing up the boat, leave lockers and drawers slightly open to allow air to get into them. Installing solar or 12 volt vent fans that pull air through the boat will help a lot. On the first warm sunny day In the spring, put all your soft goods—cushions, mattresses, rugs etc—along with life jackets and foul weather gear outside on the deck for the day. While they’re out, clean the hard surfaces and wipe with a mild solution of bleach and water or white vinegar and water. Just don't combine bleach and vinegar...that'll produce a gas that's even more lethal than that created by combining bleach and ammonia! [/FONT]

 

[zeehag]

bleach and water will NOT kill molds. it will bleach em white so you cannot see em and still grow unhindered. vinegar will kill the mold and make the environment not support growth of the spores that make molds and mildew spread, especially when combined with light and air.

 

[RichH]

Are there any common cleaning products (from grocery store or Home Depot) that are "caustic" and suitable for getting rid of fungus growth?

Good old-fashioned "lye-soap" (Agway or other large animal supply house), TSP triSodiumPhosphate, Detergents containing SodiumSilicate, etc. etc. etc. Janitorial supply outlets usually have strong alkaline soaps/detergents.

Our 'ancestors' were very good at controlling mold/mildew .... they 'whitewashed' virtually everything. Mold spores wont propagate on alkaline ('whitewashed) surfaces. A modern equivalent would be to clean then 'spritz' (but dont wipe and simply let dry) with a good caustic/alkaline detergent. whitewash: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitewash

 

[rpwillia]

What about these?

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...toreNum=10114&subdeptNum=10699&classNum=10701

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...toreNum=10114&subdeptNum=10699&classNum=10701

 

[FourPoints]

What about washing things down with hydrogen peroxide? If i recall it oxidizers biological material as it breaks down into water... No hazardous cleanup or residue left...

 

[zeehag]

vinegar.

 

[Ross]

Acid, alkali which one do I choose? I have never seen a moldy bar of soap but I have seen many moldy pickles and lemons.

 

[zeehag]

pickles and lemons have other things in em besides vinegar....
seems to me if you drastically change the pH of the environment, the moldy spores wont survive--i use vinegar as it is easiest on hands and equipment.