Hi all, I am just in the process of installing a Sealand 965 MSD porta potty and wish to install it with a pumpout and vent. Installing the pumpout staight up to the deck seems straight forward, the vent puzzles me though. 1) I think I understand that it needs to be a normal thru hull (IE: plastic thru hull with nothing to cover the thru hull opening, correct?) 2) Must it must go on the hull above the waterline or can I put it on the deck with some sort of cover to keep rain out? 3) The vent output is only 5/8", should I try to put a 1" output in instead (goodbye warranty) or is 5/8" ok for a porta potty? 4) If I take the 5/8" and "Tee" it off above the tank and use two thru hulls is it increasing my fresh air movement or do you really need two vent inputs to the tank with two thru hulls? I'm not looking forward to drilling a hole in the hull if that's where the vent should go, I'll await any advice first though, thanks in advance Richard
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
Problems
Venting straight up won't allow any exchange of air. But you can't vent out the hull on a sailboat either unless a) you don't heel enough to put the thru-hull in the water, or b) you can can put it far enough forward to keep it out of the water even if the rails are in the water. So before I can give you any advice about how to vent the tank, I need to know where the head is on the boat and the answers to several other questions. Wanna e-mail me? I'm in the directory.
Venting straight up won't allow any exchange of air. But you can't vent out the hull on a sailboat either unless a) you don't heel enough to put the thru-hull in the water, or b) you can can put it far enough forward to keep it out of the water even if the rails are in the water. So before I can give you any advice about how to vent the tank, I need to know where the head is on the boat and the answers to several other questions. Wanna e-mail me? I'm in the directory.
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Geoffrey Trott
Air Head Dry Toilet corrections and clarifications
Peggy, In review of your 1/25/2003 response to a question regarding the Air Head Dry Toilet I feel the need to clarify a few things: 1. Regarding your comment about a few days odor: We've changed the wording on the website from the original since it was causing some confusion. Initially we said "a few days" regarding the odor. What we mean't is that the feces itself only smells for a few days not the whole boat! The aerobic conditions take a few days however, since we have an internal agitator that shears the solid material and buries it a filtering effect occurs so one never smells anything but a musty odor out the vent stack and never anything inside the boat INCLUDING during use since there is a constant negative pressure. This is all apparent when we bring a tank with 20 to 30 solid uses to the Air Head Dry Toilet booth at Sail Expos. Usually we use it up till the day before our travel departure. The smell is insignificant and undistiguishable from decomposing leaves. 2. Regarding your comment on the 3" vent: We've gotten more efficient with the vent size and can now go with a smaller 2"-2 1/4" vent but you can use a standard 3" vent. The hose is actually only 1.8" dia. 3. Regarding your comment to the effect that the unit costs as much as a Lectra San and and electric toilet: The cost of the unit is $795. We offer internet specials and show specials for less. I price Lecta San for $849.99 at Boat US and the electric heads seem to be $500 and up. And of course you know the costs of the fittings and hoses better than me. But I think I priced them once at $300 minimum. And of course there is the installation which means either time or money. Air Head installation is under an hour, that is after you've ripped all the old stuff out. 4. Regarding emptying bottles in a storm: I think it is only fair to compare filled tanks to filled tanks. If you are in a storm and have filled tanks naturally the only thing is to empty overboard. The same goes for our urine containers. It could be argued that the LEGAL means of waste emptying is equally a chore whether you pump out or bring our bottles in to shore particularly if pump outs are not available. 5. Regarding your question why would anyone bother with using peat... I will spare everyone the sales pitch and refer you to our website or booth at the next Sail Expo. And thank you for mentioning the the Practical Sailor ariticle. I find the review of our unit fair and accurate. Actually it was in the November 15, 2002 issue instead of "December". With a follow up letter by me in the issue afterward. Regards, Geoffrey Trott General Manager, Eos Design LLC
Peggy, In review of your 1/25/2003 response to a question regarding the Air Head Dry Toilet I feel the need to clarify a few things: 1. Regarding your comment about a few days odor: We've changed the wording on the website from the original since it was causing some confusion. Initially we said "a few days" regarding the odor. What we mean't is that the feces itself only smells for a few days not the whole boat! The aerobic conditions take a few days however, since we have an internal agitator that shears the solid material and buries it a filtering effect occurs so one never smells anything but a musty odor out the vent stack and never anything inside the boat INCLUDING during use since there is a constant negative pressure. This is all apparent when we bring a tank with 20 to 30 solid uses to the Air Head Dry Toilet booth at Sail Expos. Usually we use it up till the day before our travel departure. The smell is insignificant and undistiguishable from decomposing leaves. 2. Regarding your comment on the 3" vent: We've gotten more efficient with the vent size and can now go with a smaller 2"-2 1/4" vent but you can use a standard 3" vent. The hose is actually only 1.8" dia. 3. Regarding your comment to the effect that the unit costs as much as a Lectra San and and electric toilet: The cost of the unit is $795. We offer internet specials and show specials for less. I price Lecta San for $849.99 at Boat US and the electric heads seem to be $500 and up. And of course you know the costs of the fittings and hoses better than me. But I think I priced them once at $300 minimum. And of course there is the installation which means either time or money. Air Head installation is under an hour, that is after you've ripped all the old stuff out. 4. Regarding emptying bottles in a storm: I think it is only fair to compare filled tanks to filled tanks. If you are in a storm and have filled tanks naturally the only thing is to empty overboard. The same goes for our urine containers. It could be argued that the LEGAL means of waste emptying is equally a chore whether you pump out or bring our bottles in to shore particularly if pump outs are not available. 5. Regarding your question why would anyone bother with using peat... I will spare everyone the sales pitch and refer you to our website or booth at the next Sail Expo. And thank you for mentioning the the Practical Sailor ariticle. I find the review of our unit fair and accurate. Actually it was in the November 15, 2002 issue instead of "December". With a follow up letter by me in the issue afterward. Regards, Geoffrey Trott General Manager, Eos Design LLC
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
Thanks for the clarification, Geoff
Although I wonder why you chose to post it in this thread about venting a permanently installed portapotty boat of in the discussion of your Airhead toilet. My information about the Airhead comes from your own website and discussions with the folks at Practical Sailor who conducted the tests of composting toilets and their published review of them. I think you misinterpreted my comment about peat moss. I understand fully why it must be used in a composter. That it's necessary to keep a supply of it aboard is a consideration in deciding whether a composter is the best choice of toilet for a particular owner and his boat. As for price comparisons, you need to dig a little deeper than the BOAT/US catalog for toilet and Lectra/San prices. The lowest price I've seen for the Lectra/San is $729 (Defender). I can be used with ANY toilet, so unless a new toilet is needed too, almost no addition expense. Manual toilets start as low $100...kits to convert existing manual toilets to electric average about $350. The L/S has to be within 6' of the toilet, and equally close to a thru-hull...12' of hose, a vented loop and some hose clamps are less than $100. So the total cost of installing a Lectra/San can be as low as $800. However, there is no one-size-fits-all “best toilet” or system, only the best toilet for an individual boat and its owner. And there are a number of factors that go into selecting the best toilet for any boat: boat size: power resources, holding tank size vs. flush water consumption, availability of accessible pumpout facilities, whether treatment is an option or not, who’ll be using it—only adult "seasoned salts" or children and frequent landlubber/guests, space available, and your budget…even how long you plan to keep the current boat. That's an important point, because the person who asked the question--and to whom I replied--is in coastal waters where the discharge of treated waste is legal, and his boat is big enough to have to power resources to support a treatment device. ...his choices aren't limited to various means of storing waste aboard, he can flush it and get rid of it--by FAR the best solution to dealing with waste aboard HIS boat, in HIS waters...and what I recommended. But those on "no discharge" inland lakes don't have that choice. For some, the Airhead may indeed be a better choice than a marine toilet and holding tank or a portapotty...or it may not be. There's still the matter of sufficient power, peat moss storage, venting etc, to consider, along with the owner's budget. So I suggest you update your website ASAP to include the corrections you posted here, and hang around to answer specific questions...starting with mine: 1). According to your own website, the urine storage tank holds "4 days' use per person." Am I wrong in interpreting this to mean that 4 people aboard for a week will fill nearly two urine tanks each...a total of 8 tanks (7 of which must be purchased separately?) full of urine that have to be stored aboard somewhere by the end of a weeklong cruise. 2). If carrying them off the boat and pouring them down a toilet or a portapotty dump station is the ONLY way to dispose of the contents, that's a lot to carry! Your comments?
Although I wonder why you chose to post it in this thread about venting a permanently installed portapotty boat of in the discussion of your Airhead toilet. My information about the Airhead comes from your own website and discussions with the folks at Practical Sailor who conducted the tests of composting toilets and their published review of them. I think you misinterpreted my comment about peat moss. I understand fully why it must be used in a composter. That it's necessary to keep a supply of it aboard is a consideration in deciding whether a composter is the best choice of toilet for a particular owner and his boat. As for price comparisons, you need to dig a little deeper than the BOAT/US catalog for toilet and Lectra/San prices. The lowest price I've seen for the Lectra/San is $729 (Defender). I can be used with ANY toilet, so unless a new toilet is needed too, almost no addition expense. Manual toilets start as low $100...kits to convert existing manual toilets to electric average about $350. The L/S has to be within 6' of the toilet, and equally close to a thru-hull...12' of hose, a vented loop and some hose clamps are less than $100. So the total cost of installing a Lectra/San can be as low as $800. However, there is no one-size-fits-all “best toilet” or system, only the best toilet for an individual boat and its owner. And there are a number of factors that go into selecting the best toilet for any boat: boat size: power resources, holding tank size vs. flush water consumption, availability of accessible pumpout facilities, whether treatment is an option or not, who’ll be using it—only adult "seasoned salts" or children and frequent landlubber/guests, space available, and your budget…even how long you plan to keep the current boat. That's an important point, because the person who asked the question--and to whom I replied--is in coastal waters where the discharge of treated waste is legal, and his boat is big enough to have to power resources to support a treatment device. ...his choices aren't limited to various means of storing waste aboard, he can flush it and get rid of it--by FAR the best solution to dealing with waste aboard HIS boat, in HIS waters...and what I recommended. But those on "no discharge" inland lakes don't have that choice. For some, the Airhead may indeed be a better choice than a marine toilet and holding tank or a portapotty...or it may not be. There's still the matter of sufficient power, peat moss storage, venting etc, to consider, along with the owner's budget. So I suggest you update your website ASAP to include the corrections you posted here, and hang around to answer specific questions...starting with mine: 1). According to your own website, the urine storage tank holds "4 days' use per person." Am I wrong in interpreting this to mean that 4 people aboard for a week will fill nearly two urine tanks each...a total of 8 tanks (7 of which must be purchased separately?) full of urine that have to be stored aboard somewhere by the end of a weeklong cruise. 2). If carrying them off the boat and pouring them down a toilet or a portapotty dump station is the ONLY way to dispose of the contents, that's a lot to carry! Your comments?
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