Vega hull-deck joint - possible water ingress?

pjacobs55 · Oct 8, 2014

Leaking deck hardware. Chainplates, or maybe the hull to deck bolts, or the cleats or winch bases. Sounds like you will want to re-bed everything this winter. I used 3M 4200. I did not try to rebed the hull deck joint but the hardware rebed took care of the problem. Nicholas H. Walsh Admiralty and maritime law; Commercial law Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.120 Exchange StreetP.O. Box 7206Portland Maine 04112-7206Phone: 207/772-2191Fax: 207/774-3940 This email is from a law firm and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you suspect you received it in error, please delete the email and contact us. From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 5:28 AMTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AlbinVega] Vega hull-deck joint - possible water ingress? Hi all and thanks for the patience of many in helping with my search for source of leaks.I eliminated the possibility of siphoning through heads or sink seacocks by keeping them closed while sailing and still got some water in the lower part (below the self) of aft starboard cockpit locker - just forward of the sink at waist level.The amount was small, say 1/4 pint or less but I expect the rest, a pint or 2, had drained into the **** bilge.I usually have that locker (with a cushion backrest closing it) full of stuff. I happened to empty it out and found water in a plastic instrument cover that was lying open up in the lower (below shelf) part of the locker, with spools of light line covering it.So *somehow* water got into that locker from above.The window seals are in good condition.The seal (hull-deck) seemed slightly damp so I suspect this is the cause.I had been sailing hard on the wind so the hull-deck seal is immersed at times and has significant water pressure on it when sailing on port tack - near the beam where the ingress seems to have occurred.Is fixing this just a matter of tightening fastening bolts or do I need to "re-caulk" the seal?As always; suggestions welcome.John V1447 Breakaway-- John A. Kinsella Ph: +353-61-202148 (Direct)+353-61-333644 x 2148 (Switch)Mathematics Dept. e-mail: John.Kinsella@...University of Limerick FAX: +353-61-334927IRELAND Web: John Kinsella's Website

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tim_klynn · Oct 8, 2014

I would check out the stanchions, as they are easy to get to.I like this guys site for advice on rebedding: Welcome To MarineHowTo.com by Compass Marine How To He likes using butyl tape, which is how the original deck/hull joint was sealed.I\'ve read that if you can seal up the cabin, you can fit a blower (leaf blower?) to pressurize the cabin, then go around with soapy water to spray on suspect areas until you find the leak. Similar to finding a hole in a bicycle tube. I\'ve never tried it, but it would seem possible to do the sealing with duct tape and plastic
sheeting. tg   From: "John.Kinsella John.Kinsella@... [AlbinVega]" <AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com> To: "AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com" <AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 8, 2014 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Vega hull-deck joint - possible water ingress?
 

Of course the deck-hull joint is even further outboard but I wondered if water would be percolating down inside the carpeting which is on the inside of the hull...???

I am finding this puzzle frustrating.

I may just have to bring the boat to a boatyard and say "figure it out"...  Then many €€€$$$£££ later I will know..

John

On 08/10/14 14:44, John.Kinsella
John.Kinsella@... [AlbinVega] wrote:

pjacobs55 · Oct 8, 2014

If you have water wetting the lockers it’s almost certainly a bedding issue. I suggest you open everything up, get a bright work light and maybe a mirrror, and have someone put a hard water spray on the hardware and deck hull joint (at various angles) as you methodically scrutinize each piece and area from below, from forward to aft or whatever. That’s the boatyard test and it works. If a few pieces are leaking then you should probably rebed everything. It’s not too bad a job, lasts 10 years or more if done right (use modern bedding compound, like 4200) and it is satisfying to know the deck is tight.  Nicholas H. Walsh        Admiralty and maritime law; Commercial law  Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.120 Exchange StreetP.O. Box 7206Portland Maine 04112-7206Phone: 207/772-2191Fax: 207/774-3940  This email is from a law firm and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you suspect you received it in error, please delete the email and contact us.  From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 10:58 AMTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AlbinVega] Vega hull-deck joint - possible water ingress?    Of course the deck-hull joint is even further outboard but I wondered if water would be percolating down inside the carpeting which is on the inside of the hull...???I am finding this puzzle frustrating.I may just have to bring the boat to a boatyard and say "figure it out"...  Then many €€€$$$£££ later I will know..

JohnOn 08/10/14 14:44, John.Kinsella John.Kinsella@... [AlbinVega] wrote:

pjacobs55 · Oct 8, 2014

I blogged about bedding once upon a time, and I think the blog is still up on the Vega site, in PDF form. There are 3 or 4 articles about my bedding project – you’ll get ahead on the learning curve if you see them, a good many tricks I learned along the way. If you can’t find it privately email me and I’ll send it to you. nwalsh@...  Nicholas H. Walsh        Admiralty and maritime law; Commercial law  Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.120 Exchange StreetP.O. Box 7206Portland Maine 04112-7206Phone: 207/772-2191Fax: 207/774-3940  This email is from a law firm and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you suspect you received it in error, please delete the email and contact us.  From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 11:18 AMTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AlbinVega] Vega hull-deck joint - possible water ingress?    Thanks.That makes a lot of sense.JohnOn 08/10/14 16:14, \'Nicholas Walsh\' nwalsh@... [AlbinVega] wrote:

pjacobs55 · Oct 8, 2014

I blogged about bedding once upon a time, and I think the blog is still up on the Vega site, in PDF form. There are 3 or 4 articles about my bedding project – you’ll get ahead on the learning curve if you see them, a good many tricks I learned along the way. If you can’t find it privately email me and I’ll send it to you. nwalsh@...  Nicholas H. Walsh        Admiralty and maritime law; Commercial law  Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.120 Exchange StreetP.O. Box 7206Portland Maine 04112-7206Phone: 207/772-2191Fax: 207/774-3940  This email is from a law firm and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you suspect you received it in error, please delete the email and contact us.  From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 11:18 AMTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AlbinVega] Vega hull-deck joint - possible water ingress?    Thanks.That makes a lot of sense.JohnOn 08/10/14 16:14, \'Nicholas Walsh\' nwalsh@... [AlbinVega] wrote:

tim_klynn · Oct 8, 2014

On my boat, the drain tube for the coaming under the locker lid was cracked and leaking. Tg

n6ric · Oct 12, 2014

John,I have similar cracks on Blue Max. I'm fairly certain that the cracks are from people pulling on the stations to pull the boat closer to the dock, or pushing on them to keep the boat from hitting the dock, because most of the damage was near the stations next to the boarding gates.I sanded the areas to get them clean and smooth, filled in the cracks with thickened epoxy and epoxied 2" wide fiberglass tape along the edge several inches beyond either side of the cracks. I also found that a large number of the bolts were loose and went along each side and tightened them all down. I doubt that you will need to re-bed the station bases. I removed one of mine and the butyl was still soft, pliable, and sticky.Rics/v Blue Max#2692www.ric-maxfield.net

lewills30 · Oct 12, 2014

Hi John,I am right now fixing the same issue. See those vertical cracks in your photos? You want to fix those, as well as the backing plate that is acting as small washers. The fix is simple and the problem will not come back, leave it like the pictures and it will crack deeper and start to crack threw the flange at the backing washers. If you want my two cents let me know. LarrySV-2761Lilly TooSent from Windows MailFrom: n4lbl alan.schulman@... [AlbinVega]Sent: ?Saturday?, ?October? ?11?, ?2014 ?8?:?32? ?AMTo: n4lbl alan.schulman@... [AlbinVega]

OK.

The penny has dropped..

I removed the "fascia boards" which cover the hull-deck joint port & stbd. Sure enough there was evidence of water ingress through the hull-deck join in two places on stbd side just aft of amidships.

More to the point the nuts securing the hull-deck sealing bolts were not tight - I was able to tighten them by a full turn or more.
The corresponding bolt heads on deck could only be tightened by 1/8 turn to 1/4 turn at most.

Having tightened the nuts I then blasted the hull-deck joint from outside at different angles with a power hose - no visible water ingress which encourages me to think that I may have at least partly solved the problem.

However I did notice some vertical cracks - see photos in my (newly created) Yahoo Albin Vega 17 Album "Breakaway" - in particular (Starboard side)

Yahoo! Groups

groups.yahoo.com

This photo shows the vertical cracks in the inner deck below the stanchion post at the beam of the boat (midships) on the starboard side.

Similar cracks are visible on the port side:

Yahoo! Groups

groups.yahoo.com

I'm not sure whether the cracks are due to leverage of the stanchion posts or over-tight rigging?

The ingress of water (if any) on the port side was slight but I have also tightened the nuts and bolts here.

I didn't have time to remove both beam stanchion posts (port & stbd) and investigate - and rebed with sealant.
When I do I will see whether the cracks are superficial and try to grind out and re-glass.It is remarkable how (when hard on the wind on port tack, so stbd hull-deck seal immersed) the ingress of water at or just aft of amidships flowed aft via the small locker under the sink and to the bilge via the saloon sole/floor.
Some water also flowed via the locker under the starboard bunk, via the battery compartment and so also to the bilge.

In hindsight I should have checked the hull-deck joint sooner...

Comments/advice welcome and thanks again to all who have taken the time to read and comment.

Thanks to Nicholas in particular for encouraging me to investigate the joints.

John V1447 BreakawayOn 08/10/14 16:53, John.Kinsella
John.Kinsella@... [AlbinVega] wrote:

tomfentonvega2977beowulf · Oct 12, 2014

Larry, we all want to hear your fix.