We are starting with clean wood and want to use a varnish product that will be the most durable. What has worked for you?
Varnish
- Thread starter Quoddy
- Start date
- Status
Ahh one of the most debated questions about boats - what is the best varnish.
I use Cetol on our Island Packet 35. Not the old cetol that turns everything orange and almost opaque, but the new natural teak for the first two coats, followed by 4 coats of the gloss. In the FL sun, a light sanding and two coats of gloss go on everything that is fully exposed (toe rail, cabintop hand rail, etc) once per year. The cockpit surround that is partially shaded by the bimini can go 2 years between additional coats of the gloss. All the teak on the boat is 7 years into this program and I don't foresee any need to start over in the next few years. Now for what I don't like about this approach. Lets say you have to replace a bung that worked its way out or a dent where a winch handle hit the teak. If you sand down to bare wood, there is really no way to blend in the repair and have the color match. Any place the cetol gloss hits bare teak it turns much darker than the teak that was originally coated with the natural teak. I understand with a true varnish like epaphanes this is not an issue, but also won't last as long in the FL sun.
Good Luck with your decision.
I use Cetol on our Island Packet 35. Not the old cetol that turns everything orange and almost opaque, but the new natural teak for the first two coats, followed by 4 coats of the gloss. In the FL sun, a light sanding and two coats of gloss go on everything that is fully exposed (toe rail, cabintop hand rail, etc) once per year. The cockpit surround that is partially shaded by the bimini can go 2 years between additional coats of the gloss. All the teak on the boat is 7 years into this program and I don't foresee any need to start over in the next few years. Now for what I don't like about this approach. Lets say you have to replace a bung that worked its way out or a dent where a winch handle hit the teak. If you sand down to bare wood, there is really no way to blend in the repair and have the color match. Any place the cetol gloss hits bare teak it turns much darker than the teak that was originally coated with the natural teak. I understand with a true varnish like epaphanes this is not an issue, but also won't last as long in the FL sun.
Good Luck with your decision.
So Far (Knock on Wood) ............................
...................... the best thing I have found is coating the wood (in this case teak) with System Three epoxy and then protecting it with varnish.
The attached picture shows our stern rail seats after five years in service. The teak strips have five coats of epoxy and three coats of varnish to screen out the UV. The surface still looks like wet varnish and is crystal clear. The trick here is to ensure that the woodwork is removed and hermetically sealed on all sides with epoxy and that all screws entering the wood are sealed from behind. The wood must also be completely dry.
The one catch with using epoxy is that you always have to be on the lookout for any dings in the brightwork which may allow water in. A mess if this is not soon repaired, as the epoxy ensures that any water that enters through the ding can never leave.
However, repairs are very simple and easy.
System Three puts out some excellent literature on their site:
http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/literature/The_Epoxy_Book.pdf
Well worth looking at if you are willing to put in the extra work for a bright finish that will last for many years.
...................... the best thing I have found is coating the wood (in this case teak) with System Three epoxy and then protecting it with varnish.
The attached picture shows our stern rail seats after five years in service. The teak strips have five coats of epoxy and three coats of varnish to screen out the UV. The surface still looks like wet varnish and is crystal clear. The trick here is to ensure that the woodwork is removed and hermetically sealed on all sides with epoxy and that all screws entering the wood are sealed from behind. The wood must also be completely dry.
The one catch with using epoxy is that you always have to be on the lookout for any dings in the brightwork which may allow water in. A mess if this is not soon repaired, as the epoxy ensures that any water that enters through the ding can never leave.
However, repairs are very simple and easy. System Three puts out some excellent literature on their site:
http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/literature/The_Epoxy_Book.pdf
Well worth looking at if you are willing to put in the extra work for a bright finish that will last for many years.
Attachments
i donot use varnish on my wood--teak--i use sea water and tak or tung oil. takes 6 hours to d omy teak every year, 6 hours. hw many does it take to varnish and cetol??many more. i can sail a lot more with using oil--and it looks great.
Weathered teak
Thanks for the suggestions on finishes for the clean wood. Now to cleaning the weathered teak. Which of the myriad of products work best? Sea water sounds simple enough. Is pressure washing a bad idea?
Thanks for the suggestions on finishes for the clean wood. Now to cleaning the weathered teak. Which of the myriad of products work best? Sea water sounds simple enough. Is pressure washing a bad idea?
I second Zeehog's opinion. This system works great on my boat despite the fact that I'm exposed to the FL sun.
Barkeep's Friend can be good for cleaning, it contains a small amount of oxalic acid so it will clean and brighten the wood, but it's not so harsh as to damage gelcoat or paint. You can find it at many grocery and hardware stores.
We're going to try oil this time, have to strip off the worn/flaking varnish. Looking for an oil that has enough UV protection to stand up to the extreme sun, heat and humidiity we have here in LA (Lower Alabama).
Have been researching oils and found that there are true "oils" and then there are "wiping varnishes" that are mixtures of oil, varnish and thinner (often mineral spirits). True oils include linseed (not recommended as takes forever to dry out), boiled linseed (better) and tung (although many oils marketed as tung apparently aren't, and true pure tung oil also takes forever to dry out). Some wiping varnishes are marketed as oils, for example Watco Teak Oil; and apparently some oils marketed as "tung" are really a wiping mixture. One clue is to look at ingredients (if they're listed); any showing mineral spirits is most likely a wiping varnish.
I haven't decided yet what I'm going to use; leaning towards the Watco product as it seems to have more UV resistance than just teak oil. We've got LOTS of exterior wood on the boat and I like the idea of faster application of oil/wiping varnish, rather than the 2+ weeks it would take me to get 6-8 coats of varnish on all the brightwork.
Mike Turner
Lazyjack 32 schooner "Mary'Lis"
Mobile Bay, Alabama
We're going to try oil this time, have to strip off the worn/flaking varnish. Looking for an oil that has enough UV protection to stand up to the extreme sun, heat and humidiity we have here in LA (Lower Alabama).
Have been researching oils and found that there are true "oils" and then there are "wiping varnishes" that are mixtures of oil, varnish and thinner (often mineral spirits). True oils include linseed (not recommended as takes forever to dry out), boiled linseed (better) and tung (although many oils marketed as tung apparently aren't, and true pure tung oil also takes forever to dry out). Some wiping varnishes are marketed as oils, for example Watco Teak Oil; and apparently some oils marketed as "tung" are really a wiping mixture. One clue is to look at ingredients (if they're listed); any showing mineral spirits is most likely a wiping varnish.
I haven't decided yet what I'm going to use; leaning towards the Watco product as it seems to have more UV resistance than just teak oil. We've got LOTS of exterior wood on the boat and I like the idea of faster application of oil/wiping varnish, rather than the 2+ weeks it would take me to get 6-8 coats of varnish on all the brightwork.
Mike Turner
Lazyjack 32 schooner "Mary'Lis"
Mobile Bay, Alabama
I am sitting here wondering what the mfg.s use on there wash boards that makes them sooooo shiney.....i can get that kind of finish with lacquor ...but that will not hold up in a marine condition ...as it will blush over time....maybe automotive clear will work but no sure on wood ........
regards
woody
regards
woody
Wood finish
When I posted my question on varnish I had missed the good thread on finishes at" Bightworks - varnish vs polyuerathane" some good info there.
When I posted my question on varnish I had missed the good thread on finishes at" Bightworks - varnish vs polyuerathane" some good info there.
Ed - Will do - but, is anything ever "final" when it comes to sailboat maintenance/upkeep?
Mike Turner
Lazyjack 32 schooner "Mary'Lis"
Mobile Bay, Alabama
Mike Turner
Lazyjack 32 schooner "Mary'Lis"
Mobile Bay, Alabama
For interior wood, if you want the longest lasting and with the least 'ding-ability' use a 'bar-top' or HARD varnish. Spar varnish is too soft and flexible and easily 'dings' - best used on table tops, steps (but will be slippery) and those pieces that are usly 'bumped into'.
For exterior and if you MUST use varnish, apply several coats of an oil based varnish (as they have the most UV protection) let fully cure then apply 1 or 2 coats of urethane based varnish over to protect the oil based varnish.
For exterior if you want longevity and the least amount of 'maintenance': cetol clear/lite or Bristol or HoneyTeak but apply THICK for best UV protection.
I use Honey Teak and get ~12 years before needing to be stripped (needs an easily applied clear maintenance coat every 1-2 years); can be power-buffed to extreme gloss. Has the 'closest' appearance to a prime/equisite varnish job but has a high learning curve.
If you want get 'carried away' with a long lasting exterior varnish: epoxy coat to seal, 1/4 oz. angel-hair matting + 6-8 coats of oil based + 2-3 coats of Urethane based + 2 coats of Perfection clear on top of that + followed by 2 coats of sprayed and then flat sanded and hand-rubbed and buffed prime oil based (or a quality 'tung seal') . Will need jackhammer to remove. Lasts 5-6 years, needs to be power buffed every 3-4 yrs. Thats what they do on 'top end' mega-yachts and private jets and takes about 1-2 months to apply.
For exterior and if you MUST use varnish, apply several coats of an oil based varnish (as they have the most UV protection) let fully cure then apply 1 or 2 coats of urethane based varnish over to protect the oil based varnish.
For exterior if you want longevity and the least amount of 'maintenance': cetol clear/lite or Bristol or HoneyTeak but apply THICK for best UV protection.
I use Honey Teak and get ~12 years before needing to be stripped (needs an easily applied clear maintenance coat every 1-2 years); can be power-buffed to extreme gloss. Has the 'closest' appearance to a prime/equisite varnish job but has a high learning curve.
If you want get 'carried away' with a long lasting exterior varnish: epoxy coat to seal, 1/4 oz. angel-hair matting + 6-8 coats of oil based + 2-3 coats of Urethane based + 2 coats of Perfection clear on top of that + followed by 2 coats of sprayed and then flat sanded and hand-rubbed and buffed prime oil based (or a quality 'tung seal') . Will need jackhammer to remove. Lasts 5-6 years, needs to be power buffed every 3-4 yrs. Thats what they do on 'top end' mega-yachts and private jets and takes about 1-2 months to apply.
- Status