Varnish Question

[Jim Seamans]

removehtml]Question is not about which varnish you use.Do you filter it before spreading it on the wood?No matter which kind of brush or how careful I am, I always find little specks in the finish. BTW I'm not doing this outside, I'm my basement with almost no dust. Can't figure out if it is dust or bubbles in the finish. So this leads me to possibly filter the varnish in case there are small flakes of stuff in the can.JimS/V JavaError: Error: expected [/URL], but found [/removehtml] instead[/removehtml]

 

[Rich (P303)]

I think...

A brand new can of varnish will be good to go. Don't operate out of the can. Pour what you think you will use in another container. Dip your brush or foam pad in the container... BUT DON'T WIPE OFF 1 EDGE... put directly on surface... keep brush strokes to a minimum. Filter varnish before you put it back in container.Most likely the bubbles or crud are created if you operate out of the can and wipe 1 edge of the brush... bubbles slide back into the can. Crud also can hide in the bristles of an old brush. You can use cheap foam brushes and throw them away.Rich

 

[Ross]

This is an age old complaint and has more

proposed remedies than can be listed on one page. The suggestions just made by Raymond are as good as any. You might consider that some dust or lint from your clothes is contributing. A single "kleenex" pulled from the box sheds a cloud of lint. Turn off all of the lights and shine a flashlight beam across the space and look for dust motes that way. Let the air in the room remain undisturbed for a day and see if that helps, check the air filter on the furnace.Edited to add: Don't pour the left over varnish back into the can!

 

[Warren Milberg]

Jim: Take a look at the

"Don Casey Library" on the BoatUS website under resources. He has a couple of tip sheets under "Wood/Fiberglass care" that might be helpful. And...think spring.

 

[Roger (Ninette Manitoba)]

more info on varnishing style

I have built a few cedar strip canoes, and here is what I have found to work well with applying varnish.Warm wood + cool varnish=bubbles as air in in wood and varnish expandscool wood + warm varnish=fewer bubbles as air in varnish contracts, although air in wood may still expand as it warms from the varnish.warm wood then cooling + warm varnish then cooling= virtually no bubbles as varnish gets 'sucked' into the wood as it cools.How to do this: Warm your room and varnish, (warming the varnish can be accomplished by placing can on a warm air vent or in a sink of warm water). Turn off the room heat about a 1/2 hour before you start to varnish. (Use a filter on your vent or register to stop 'dust storms' in your workshop. Use all the tricks noted by others, never returning old varnish to the can, never squeegeeing the varnish on the lip of the can, never shaking the can, all of which introduce air bubbles into the varnish.Finally, have someone use a dry foam brush behind you to 'tip' stroke your 5-10 minute old work, working in one direction only, just using the tip of the dry brush. This breaks any bubbles in the varnish surface that do expand to create those bubbles. If your assistant starts to report a greater amount of bubbles, it is because YOUR brush is introducing them. Time to switch to a fresh brush. Foam brushes are good for this as you can use quite a few, guilt free, tossing them as they start to hold air. You'll get a feel for when this happens, as the brush head swells slightly, and starts to feel heavier and sloppier. I have had good results using a short nap roller on epoxy, but I still think the foam brush is best for varnish. Let us know how your project turns out.When you are working outside, always varnish or epoxy on a cooling (after the peak heat of the day) temperature for the same reason.

 

[RichH]

Varnish 'can' be applied without 'finishing' .....

but as you have found out, dust, outgassing from the wood, etc. etc. etc. can/will cause surface blemishes and no matter what you try. Unless all the gods are looking down with favor upon you, varnish once cured usually needs to be 'finished' to remove the blemishes, specks, teeny bubbles, etc. Unless you are working in a technical "clean-room' with ultra filtered air and while wearing a 'bunny suit' ... simply plan on 'finishing' the varnish .... most folks wanting prime varnish jobs never 'finish'. Most prime varnish jobs need to be 'finished' by polishing once it cures. Prime varnish jobs (as found in private jet aircraft, huge mega-yachts, Hinckleys, etc.) are usually 'finished' after the varnish totally cures by: *flat*-sanding with 600 -->1000-->1300-->2000 grit wet and dry paper, then 'hand-rubbed' with 'rottenstone' and a bit of water (buy it in a hardware store) to give a final 'polish' to the surface. If you want the ultra-gloss, then you power buff using slow speed and light pressure on a 3M knobby foam pad while using 3M Finese-it, followed by 3M Perfect-it. If you want semi-gloss, you use rottenstone and oil (but no powerbuffing) ; and, fine pumice and oil if you want a satin finish. The heat from the hand-rubbing is what develops that dazzling irridescent GLOW that you get from the wood cells beneath the varnish and the FLAT and POLISHED surface is what gives the illusion of great 'depth' to the varnish. So, if you have a varnish job with lots of dust, specks ..... you still need to FINISH the job by wet sanding, hand-rubbing and polishing. Yes, all the tricks to prevent all the 'blebs' are necessary ... so you dont have so much to 'finish' later on. The less junk that get into the coating when applying makes its easier during the 'finishing' process. Nowadays, you hardly ever see a varnish job thats 'finished'. 

 

[Dan]

I've been told.....

I've been told all the little air bubbles and imperfections in the varnish will disappear when the teak is on the boat and the boat is under sail. God I hope so.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Dust and trash?

Step 1).Start off thoroughly cleaning the surface using a tack cloth.Make one by pouring a mixture of varnish with a drop of thinner on a clean rag. Squeeze the rag thoroughly and leave it tacky. Run it along the surface and this will pick up a lot of dust and crap. When you think you have it pretty clean, get another clean rag and use a little laquer thinner on it and wipe the surface again. This should clean the surface pretty good.Step 2) Take All of the advice from Reply #1 except do not put the varnish back in the can. Throw it away after each coat and start with clean varnish from the can and clean brushes.Also lots of good stuff to be said by Roger in Reply #4Tony B

 

[Rodger]

some more tips

Two things that I will add, Thin the varnish, it will flow out better. Rub your fingers over the piece that you are getting ready to finish. I bet you will find some grit still on the wood. Tack rags and don't get all of the stuff off of the wood. I usually use my hand and a rag with thinner untill I can't feel anything but smooth wood.

 

[Rodger]

one more thing

By the way, you can't prep and varnish the same day. You have to prep one day and varnish the next day.

 

[Tim R.]

Don't thin the varnish...

Unless you need to. Temp and the particular varnish will affect how it flows. Test it on scrap first to see how it flows out then thin if neccessary.Tim R.

 

[Dan]

Don't thin the varnish?

I've heard that before. I disagree. Don't thin the varnish unless it works better, than by all means, thin the varnish.A little xyelene works wonders sometimes.

 

[John Nantz]

Wood Oar Tips

I've got a pair of varnished wood oars for the dingy and no matter what it seems I always manage to get some nicks from rocks on the edges. Short of adding some copper strips, is there anything one can do with varnish? Maybe soak the tips in epoxy first???

 

[paphman]

Sand between coats

You will find that if you wet sand between coats that it makes for a very nice final finish. There have been some real nice tips here from the other postsDale

 

[Ross]

Golly, only twelve replies so far. And no one has suggested that reading the lab

good place to start. I think that the people that make the product just might have an idea or two about the application.

 

[Tim R.]

Good point Ross

But those instructions are usually woefully inadequate. They assume ideal conditions. There simply is not enough room left on the can after all the other stuff they print there.As for thinning, I will only thin if desiring penetration which can be good in some situations. For final coats, getting it to flow is more important and thining may or may not help. The only way to truly know hwo to varnish/paint properly is through experience. There is no magic formula. What works for some people does not work for others. Lots of good tips here that should be looked at as guidelines to get started. Otherwise do a lot of experimenting on scraps.I was giving advice(that he asked for after seeing my painted spars) to a guy who wanted to paint his boat's topsides with Perfection and I suggested he buy an extra quart to perfect his technique. He said that is a total waste of money and went ahead without learning the proper technique. His boat looked ok from 50 ft. but up close it was a mess of orange peel, brush hairs and brush strokes. He was not willing to pay $60 to make the job as perfect as possible. When you look at what he was saving by painting it himself, $60 is nothing. BTW, he also used a cheap HD brush that came in a $3.99 bag with 5 other brushes.Tim R.

 

[Ross]

Orange peel texture is often the result of silicone

resisdue and the sell a product called "fisheye remover" as an additive to help eliminate the problem. If a person has never varnish anything then a boat is not a good place to learn. Further since varnishing is at the high end of the finishing trades then it is reasonable to use the very best brushes that you can afford and take care of them accordingly.

 

[John Howitt]

varnishing

is an art. If you do not have the patience and time for it , it will not look as good as it could. Hence the expresion "looks good from here".Good brushes get better with age and proper care.There is no substitute.Sanding with your hand is also a mistake.In order to get a flat surface you have to sand with a hard rubber or felt block, quarter inch cork glued to a piece of wood also works. This flattens the high spots.Don't worry about all the dust bits, as long as you have been careful. Put on one or more coats than you normally would, and rub it down with 1500 to 2000grit wet paper,I like to use paint thinner asd a lubricant, and a hard block.The best time to do this is about 25-30 days later after it has reached it's full cureand will not gum up.Wax or polish will bring out the desired shine.I once did 15 coats on a teak table for a big yacht. It took three months allowing cure time so the finsh would not fail. I also did 10 coats under the frigging matteress in the state room. It is easy just time and care are all that is reQuired. PS I used flagship varnish as it has a lot of resin and UV protection.

 

[Morrie]

Book

This little book helped me a lot.

 

[Jim Seamans]

Thanks to all

Morrie, nice book think I'll get it. Some real nice suggestions, think I'll warm up the varnish on the next go around. I have re-finished a lot of furniture over the years but I either hand rubbed or sprayed the finish on. My basement is about as clean as a paint box. I haven't filtered out of the can to a second container - I'll try that next.JimS/V Java