V25 Bulkkead Bolt, Lock Bolt, Pivot Bolt

[David M]

[FONT=&quot]Subject:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Venture 25 Bulkhead Bolt Question[/FONT]

Hello, I saw the discussion on the keel, lockdown pivot and bulkhead bolt for the Mac 25 on Sailboatowners.com site and I was wondering if anyone can help me with a few questions on my 1976 Venture 25.
In the discussions, I see mentioned the lock bolt, and the pivot bolt and in the Mac 25 owner’s manual it mentions these items as well. But in both the forum and in the owner’s manual, it mentions the bulkhead bolt but does not take it into more detail on what it is for or the size of it. My ’76 Venture 25 has a bulkhead bolt hole without any bolt in it, and there is a cutout in the keel trunk for the lock bolt but no holes drilled, and it does have the pivot bolt that seems to be in good condition(although I did not pull it out to inspect).

My questions are as follows: 1) I assume that I will need a bulkhead bolt, but I cannot find out what size it is, if it is American thread or metric, what diameter and length. 2) what is its purpose? I cannot find any information on the Bulkhead bolt on the internet. Everything comes up as talking about the lockbolt and the pivot bolt….
3) do you need a metal lock bolt with rubber washers or can it be nylon or wood as some guys have indicated they used. And if they used some other material than metal, are they still using a threaded rod in order to use rubber washers to seal out water?

Any help on this subject matter will really be appreciated.
Can anyone help on this?
Thank you in advance.

David M

 

[Freedom77]

I have a '76 V-25. Not familiar with term Bulkhead Bolt. I will try to locate owner manual. Keel has pivot bolt and keel lockdown bolt. Keel lockdown bolt is about 4" long x 1/2". Should have rubber gaskets and stainless steel washer on boat sides and a nut for tightening. If you look under the forward setee you should see a hole which goes through keel trunk on both sides. Lockdown hole on keel lines up with these holes and bolt assembly goes through it. If you can't see it I assume someone has glassed over it, however I can't understand why. You should NEVER sail without the keel locked in place. Hope this helps. Fair Winds and Full Sails....

 

[Freedom77]

Update, ..---..-..---.- supposed to be Morse code. Check website for MacGregorsailors.com under resources. go to manuals. it will pull up manual for V-25. Since I built cabinetry in that area I haven't seen it in over 30 years. You should probably only be concerned with keel pivot and keel lock bolts. Bulkhead bolt should never be removed. Fair Winds and Full Sails....

 

[justsomeguy]

Does your Venture have a metal bracket about a foot long that attaches to the keel trunk's starboard side? The bulkhead bolt on my 82 Mac is there to hold the bracket that supports the aft wall (bulkhead) of the head, which in turn keeps the base of the mast compression post in place. At least that's how it appears to me. Just don't remove it with the mast up.
David M., you do have a compression post in the cabin under your mast, don't you? Tom

 

[David M]

Freedom 77, Yes, I have the Mac 25 owners manual page 2, and it shows the top left bolt hole looking at the keel trunk from the Port Side, and that top left bolt hole is shown as the Bulkhead bolt (do not remove). My Venture 25 does not have any bolt thru that hole. When I looked at it, you can see all the way thru. Since the aft wall of the head area was dismantled when I bought the boat, I did not see what & how the area was setup. Also, there is no hole for the lockdown bolt. It looks like either there never was a hole or it is glassed over. The keel trunk has a hole opening, but there is not a hole or lockdown bolt in that position on the keel trunk. I was reading the discussion on 4/4/11 between Harry Brown (keel bolt configuration confusion) and caguy and both fellows indicated on item #1 that was the bulkhead bolt. Since mine does have the hole but no bolt, I am trying to find out what it's use is and what size bolt goes in there.
Tom, Yes I do have a compression post, wood 36.5" long x 2-1/4" square. This area was all dismantled when I bought the V25, so I will check tonight on the metal bracket that supports the bulkhead wall. I also have a box of misc. parts and will look for a longer bolt that may be the right size for that hole. You definitely may be onto the bulkhead bolt question/mystery.
Thank you both. I will check this out and let you know. I appreciate the insights.
David M

 

[justsomeguy]

The bracket has an "L" shape, where the short side attaches to the keel trunk, and the long side has 3 holes to bolt to your bulkhead, keeping it in place. G'luck. Tom

 

[Freedom77]

David. Justsomeguy is right. If you don't have the bulkhead seperating the head area from the dining you need to put one in. If you can view brochure you'll get an idea of what is looks like. This is a structural part of the boat and stiffens this area and helps support the mast post. You should also be able to see some holes in the lateral stringer where the bulkhead attaches at the bottom. Looks like PO dismantled it resulting in missing part and hole in keel trunk. Not to be redundant but have you looked under the forward settee seat. This is where keel lock bolt hole is located. If it was glass over this should be apparent. Sailing without keel locked is a big NONO. Let us all know how we can help. Fair Winds and Full Sails....

 

[flynfol]

Bulkhead bolt (upper left corner)needs to be in place to keep the keeltrunk stable along the longitudinal axis. I see how much mine flexs when heeling.........I couldn't imagine it without that bolt. I always lock my keel unless I am planning to beach the boat or haul out. I have had minor groundings which bend that bolt enough to make it difficult to remove. Lockbolt(with large washers) also minimizes keel clunk too. Letting that keel swing invites a whole host of bad scenarios.

 

[David M]

Gentlemen, Thank you all for the info. I took a break at lunch and looked at the area more closely. I also found the box of misc. parts and found the L-bracket 12" long x 1-1/2" wide with a 3/8" x 3-1/2" long bolt. I assume they go together. I fitted the bolt in the bulkhead hole and the short end of the L-bracket and it fits, which then extends out to support the bulkhead wall with 3 bolts. Mystery #1 solved.
Mystery #2: the lock bolt hole was glassed over, either because previous owner had damaged it or ? So I am ordering a new lock bolt with washers and nut from Bluewater Yachts which apparently handles all Mac parts now. Phone is 1-800-688-8626 in Seattle, WA. However they indicated that the lock bolt did not have/come with any rubber washers to seal out water? Seems kind of odd to me. Was there supposed to be rubber washers on that bolt? Or I could get some rubber washers to install on that bolt for further water inlet protection.
Mystery #3: The compression post appears to have been attached by one small L-bracket at the top in front of the C-post attached to the underside of the mast step underside plate. Should there be another attachment to the backside of the C-post holding both sides of the C-post? Also, how is the C-post secured at the bottom? I do not see any brackets or screw holes in the top or side of the keel trunk to how this was secured? Any further insight or pictures would be appreciated. Thank you,
David M

 

[flynfol]

The bulkhead has multiple uses. It secures the compression post (three screws). It bridges the gap between the L bracket and the glassed in bulkhead/liner. 3 SS bolts attach plywood bulkhead to liner which is glassed to the hull. 3 SS bolts attach bracket to bulkhead then 1 bolt to keel trunk.....and it provides some privacy for head. I enclosed my head per the women's request. You need to have at least the lower section of bulkhead installed for the above reasons. I trimmed the lower 2 inches off so it would not sit in any water that would collect in the small well that it sits in.

 

[Freedom77]

Rubber washers are approx 1"-1 1/2" diameter. Also should have stainless steel washer outside rubber washers for compression. Have to look at Freedom on questions of mast post. Fair Winds and Full Sails....

 

[David M]

flynfol and Freedom 77, thanks for your input. Flynfol, Yes, I am making a new headwall partition panel as the water also destroyed my lower edge. Would you have a picture of the area that the compression post attaches at the top end under the mast step plate inside the cabin. I still cannot get a handle of how this is attached/secured. Also, was there a certain way the bottom of the C-post is secured to the bulkhead? Is there an attachment to the head wall to the C-post? Any pics would be helpful if available. If you would like to send them on the post or to my email at drmatzke@earthlink.net it would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
David M

 

[justsomeguy]

Mystery #3: The compression post appears to have been attached by one small L-bracket at the top in front of the C-post attached to the underside of the mast step underside plate. Should there be another attachment to the backside of the C-post holding both sides of the C-post? Also, how is the C-post secured at the bottom? I do not see any brackets or screw holes in the top or side of the keel trunk to how this was secured? Any further insight or pictures would be appreciated. Thank you,
David M

Also, there's a through-bolt and washers at the top of the post, which is fixed to the small "L" bracket. The bulkhead is screwed to the post at the bottom, middle and top,That's all you should need to keep the compression post in place. It can be a bit of a puzzlement putting it all together in the proper order, but not insurmountable. Here's a photo looking forward which may help.

 

[Freedom77]

After 30 plus years got into cabin of Freedom this a.m. and sure enough there is a stainless support bracket and thru bolt on the keel trunk which attaches to the lateral stringer in head area. I wonder what else I haven't looked at in years. My scanner is busted or I would be glad to send you pics of the bulkehead setup. As I suggested see if you can pull up pictures from brochure. I'll triy to get rough measurements if possible. Bulkhead pretty well takes up entire area between hull and mast post and bottom of cabin to top. Use at least 1/2" marine plywood or similar. Fair winds and Full Sails....

 

[THECUSCUS]

V25 bulkhead

Here is a good picture of the bulkhead in my V25. The long arm of the angled bracket attaches to the backside of the bulkhead with the 3 bolts pictured. The bracket goes through a hole (maybe 2"dia) in the starboard side liner and gets bolted to the keel trunk (the hole in the upper left corner of the trunk liner is the access to the head of the bolt). The bulkhead extends the whole way down the side of the seat (can't see in the picture) and is bolted to that side with 4 3/8 bolts (w/fenderwashers). Its also attached to the wood trim piece (that hides the hull/deck joint) with a pair of "L" shaped brackets and is attached to the compression post with afew wood screws. The compression post is only attched to the roof, with an "L" shaped bracket (uses one of the bolts that hold the mast tabernacle on). I modified my mast tabernacle and the compression post attachment to the roof and will take some pictures this weekend and post for you.

 

[David M]

Here is a good picture of the bulkhead in my V25. The long arm of the angled bracket attaches to the backside of the bulkhead with the 3 bolts pictured. The bracket goes through a hole (maybe 2"dia) in the starboard side liner and gets bolted to the keel trunk (the hole in the upper left corner of the trunk liner is the access to the head of the bolt). The bulkhead extends the whole way down the side of the seat (can't see in the picture) and is bolted to that side with 4 3/8 bolts (w/fenderwashers). Its also attached to the wood trim piece (that hides the hull/deck joint) with a pair of "L" shaped brackets and is attached to the compression post with afew wood screws. The compression post is only attched to the roof, with an "L" shaped bracket (uses one of the bolts that hold the mast tabernacle on). I modified my mast tabernacle and the compression post attachment to the roof and will take some pictures this weekend and post for you.

I am very grateful for all of the input everyone has given. Thank you all very much. All of the info was dead on accurate and I can put Humpty Dumpty back together again. I am getting closer to splash day!!! I have a few more things on my list i.e.: rewiring, lowering the keel with the winch to see if everything is working correctly & replacing keel winch cable bolt (tomorrow evening), putting final few coats of marine finish on a few teak pieces, a some other minor items yet. Any special way to change the winch cable bolt? I plan on sliding the boat back off the trailer a little, pick up the back end of the boat with a big forklift enough to lower the keel to reveal the bolt and replace it. Also on the pivot bolt, since I ordered a new one, I might as well replace that too. I was thinking that I would have the boat on the trailer in the normal trailerable position, then support with a flloor jack, the front part of the keel under where the pivot bolt would approx. be, then pull out the pivot bolt and replace with new. Does this sound like a workable plan? Or is there a better way to approach it?
Thanks again for all of your input and ideas.
David M

 

[THECUSCUS]

Dave
Here are the pictures of my compression post/tabernacle attachment. Notice I had the tabernacle "extended" so I could put a 90degree bracket on both sides of the post (with a through bolt connecting them).

 

[LloydB]

I used the floor jack method to completely remove and reinstall the swing keel so I could repair the keel trunk and it worked fine. In your case if you just want to replace the bolt then you need only take pressure off the keel so you should be able to leave the boat where it is on the trailer. A trusted helper would be speedy.

 

[Freedom77]

LLoyd B is correct. If you just jack up the keel to relieve pressure you should be able to remove pivot bolt. Would also suggest resting aft end of keel on a support to keep it upright as much as possible so keel won't "twist" in trunk. Fair Winds and Full Sails... P.S. Humpty Dumpty was pushed!!