Using a stern line to turn boat

[Derek Rowell]

I have a major problem getting my boat (Pearson 422) to turn while backing out of my slip whenever the wind is blowing from the east! The wind completely dominates the rudder. We have a fairly narrow fairway with about 40 feet of wiggle room. We got into real trouble a couple of days ago in only about 6 knots from the NE - all I could do was go back and forth, I simply could not get the bow to swing around, and we drifted sideways until I could go forward into a vacant slip. (I've been in this marina for 30 years and never had problems with previous boats. This has been driving me crazy for the nine years I've had this boat. What I desperately need is a bow thruster...)

Anyway, some of my buddies were there on Tuesday, and one of them suggested using a long stern line to turn the boat as I backed out. We were docked port side to, and I wanted the stern to come round to port. He held the line on the dock and it worked like a charm, the boat came around very easily - we simply recovered the line and we were off!

My question is how I can rig a line so that I can do the same thing from on board without assistance on the dock. I could slip a line around the piling at the end of the dock finger, or attach a sheave to run the line through, but in either case I will need a line that is at least twice the length of the boat so that I can release one end and retrieve the line. Alternatively, I've been trying to think of a hook design on the dock that would release a single line with a loop line as the boat moves forward.

Any suggestions...
Derek

 

[Gary_H]

I use my warps to get out on occasion too. I usually cleat off a line then run it around a piling and the back to the boat to the jib winch. As I back out I let out line until my bow is close to clearing and then I snub up and the boat rotates around the line. once the bow clears and is pointing down the fairway I put her in forward, let go one end of the warp and pull it in from around the piling.

 

[howard]

Derek, i have a pearson 422 as well. they back up like a bowling ball. I would like to trade ideas about these boats. My email is howardarm@cox.net if you are interested.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Derek
I sometimes had the same problem and contemplated doing something similar but chose the lazy approach. When the wind prevents my stern from kicking around, make the wind your friend (the converse usually isn't a good idea). I let it do it's thing and back out to the main fairway - not elegant but it seems preferable to me compared with the chance of a long line in the water which has an affinity for the prop.

 

[larryw]

If you ever get a chance to watch a tug captain manuever, it's worth studying. Of course, that's a full-crew situation. You know you can turn the boat completely around within it's own length using the helm and forward/reverse, too. I've backed up a long way when I missed an approach before. Whatever keeps you from knocking rails together works.

 

[Winkfish]

Using a line to help maneuver away form a dock or slip is a perfectly acceptable way to do it and is in fact taught in most sailing and boating courses. You do need a long line.

One question though. In the situation you described, you wanted your stern to go to port. Was it tending to swing to starboard? If so, and if you let it do so, would you have been able to get forward headway to the port direction, then turn around in the fairway? I'm thinking, maybe wrongly, it would be easier to turn around going forward than trying to turn your stern going in reverse.

 

[Warren Milberg]

I used to teach people how to do this using a midships cleat. Takes two people. Secure the line to the cleat. Wrap it around the port aft piling, and bring the line back to the person manning the cleat amidships. As you begin to back up, the person amidships holds the line tightly causing the boat to pivot around the aft port piling. It helps to have fender between boat and piling or to install a rubber bumper on the piling. As the stern swings to port, and the bow comes out of the slip, the line is let go and smartly yanked back aboard as you straighten out and head out of the fairway. Give this a try on a calm day to get the feel of it. Works nicely for most conditions and boats.

 

[NC-C320]

I think that the concern of a long line in the water, especially when single handing, is a serious concern. There is a solution, I believe (I've bought the line but not yet tested it). Sampson makes a double braided polypropylene line that is flexible and that floats. Polypropylene is not generally thought of as a good line in boating since it degrades in sunlight quickly and is not stretchy like nylon. But for this application (forcing the stern to go a certain direction), it may be perfect. It is Sampson MFP and is available in 1/2". It is yellow with red tracer. It is available by special order from West Marine (not in their catalogue) and may also be available from SailboatOwners.com by special inquiry. I bought 75' for a 32' boat. It is expensive, roughly same as StaSet. (But cheap comparied with fouled prop in tight quarters).

Tie off points: I have stern cleats near the helm. Additionally, I installed two Garhauer fiddle blocks with cam cleat to the push pit rail on either side. Now, I can take a line from forward (via blocks at stem plate or midship cleat), run them around winches to snub the lines and tend them from the helm position. This allows me/you to tend the line used to turn the stern without leaving the helmstation when maneuvering.

 

[Joe]

Whatever works for you, my friend. Doubling the line is the easiest way. You really should have a long warp on board anyway... what if you need a tow? Actualy, if it was me, I'd go to Home Depot and purchase some 1/2 inch floating poly line and keep it just for this purpose. If you tie off from a mid ships cleat you won't need as much as from the stern.

 

[Stephen K]

Using a stern line is a great way to solve your problem....I've done it a few times on a friends Tayana 37...that boat doesn't handle well in close quarters either.

We used a 1/2 line around the piling at the end of the dock and brought both "loose" ends back into the cockpit. We made one end fast on the stern cleat and at the other end put one wrap around the winch. The loose end was tended by the mate (or the skipper if single-handed). When backing out, the line is paid out until the "turning point" and then made fast around the winch. When the turn is complete, free the end from the winch and pull the line in fast. This would be easier to do single-handed if the winches are close to the wheel. I like the idea of using a floating line....good luck and hope this helps.

 

[Deadline]

An alternative

You might try backing in, seriously.

It takes several tries to get the geometry down pat, but it requires less space if you turn sharp at the piling and pivot off the other piling.

Then you'll have a straight shot out to depart.

 

[NC-C320]

Whatever works for you, my friend. Doubling the line is the easiest way. You really should have a long warp on board anyway... what if you need a tow? Actualy, if it was me, I'd go to Home Depot and purchase some 1/2 inch floating poly line and keep it just for this purpose. If you tie off from a mid ships cleat you won't need as much as from the stern.

Joe, not sure who your first line was adressed to, but: Actually, I bought the cheap 3 strand from Tractor Supply/Home Depot first. That line is very stiff and on one end has a memory that causes it to curl. The more expensive Sampson MFP float line is flexible like new doublebraid dock lines. One (but not the only use) is for doing exactly what has been suggested....doubling the line. When you are single handing in a tight situation, I prefer to stay at/near the helm station, hence the blocks/cam cleats on the pushpit rail. These are also used in other evolutions also.....So far, they've proved very handy. Obviously, there is more than one way to handle any situation.

 

[RichH]

I have a Ty37 which backs down like a drunken elephant.

Warren's statement about the midship cleat/hawse is probably the best for 'warping' a boat around a piling, as the 'moment arm' (leverage) provided by the 'maximum beam' is the 'maximum' affecting a good turn with little 'power'. With a big heavy boat, warping can be a problem --- you can easily break a piling !!!!!

By all means, learn how to master a 'pivot turn' (backing and filling) - www.videos.sailingcourse.com/pivot_turn.htm but dont be timid in applying POWER to affect the turn. Suggest practice to be able to turn the boat 360 degrees .... in close to doing so within its boatlength !!!!

Once you become 'well practiced' with the pivot turn, you can use the end pilings in a slip to keep the boat 'aligned' to the direction of the turn you want .... you just 'see-saw' on the piling at amidships using components of the pivot turn to align the boat against current and wind, etc. until you are ready to leave/enter. The best advice I can offer for backing/turning a big heavy boat that doesnt want to turn is: KEEP IT MOVING so that there is less chance for the bow to be pushed around by the wind/current. PLAN ahead so that all of the major 'turns' are towards PORTSIDE (with a right handed prop) as thats the predominent turn when using 'prop walk' to turn a boat, avoid turns to starboard as they will be restrained due to the prop-walk .... turns to starboard are best affected by using the piling at amidships, and then 'see/sawing' along the piling at amidships plus kicking the stern to port by going into reverse while going forward ... to affect the set up for a turn to starboard.
When wanting to enter a slip and you find its 'on the wrong side' of what you want, go further down the fairway and do a 180° tight pivot turn and then come back to enter the slip on the 'preferred' side - usually to the portside when you have a right handed prop.

On such a boat its usually best to put it in a slip thats on the 'portside' when entering by backing in .... using prop walk to drive/turn the stern towards port, etc. For entering a slip to starboard its usually best to enter bow-in by using prop-walk in REVERSE to swing the stern to port to align the boat to the axis of the slip. Best is to be in a slip stern-to as you will better control (speed) when leaving. If you dont have sufficient speed there will be no flow across the rudder/keel and that will leave you vulnerable to the wind,etc. blowing the bow around. Do a pivot turn with LOTS of power momentarily (suddenly) applied to 'kick' the stern around to affect the turning .... but remember that you are only moving the stern to one side or the other by 'kicking' it from the side with the 'prop walk'; dont be 'timid' when kicking the stern with short 'bursts' of HIGH rpm ... and keep the boat 'moving'. You usually get the most effective kicking of the stern to port when the boat is slowly moving FORWARD --- go forward, idle down and quickly shift into reverse and apply a HIGH burst of rpm. In all these maneuvers it usually doesnt matter how the rudder is turned - with a right hand prop I usually turn the wheel to the right and just leave it there (to deflect water when 'bursting' into forward).

Heavy, full keeled, and boats with props in apertures are a royal PITA to backdown and turn when not moving through the water ... the pivot turn, using warps, is about the only way you can 'turn' them into or out of a slip. Be prepared to repair dings in the cap rail if you dont have a rub rail.

 

[Derek Rowell]

Thanks to everybody for your comments. We tried warping out (using the slip finger piling) from on board over the weekend in a light easterly and it worked like a charm with very little tension on the line. The stern came right around, we just gathered in the line and we were off. What a difference...

Derek