Used sails from other boats?

DrJudyB · Jun 26, 2020

@srimes

Like most light-weight trailerables, the Mac 26D will be on its ear with a #3 105% jib in 18-25 kts, even with 2 reefs in the mainsail. I assume the boat uses hank on sails and his smallest is a 105% or so. So it’s a good idea to have a small jib for strong winds in this wind range sailing off the Oregon coast.

I’d recommend around a 80% LP jib, with a luff of approx 80% of maximum hoist on the luff. About 65 -72 sf or so That would be about the right size for a high wind (#4) jib for a Mac26D. 6.5 - 7.0 oz good quality dacron would be the right strength. A used, small jib from a smaller boat will probably be 4-5 oz dacron. That isn't durable enough a used 4 or 5 oz sail may rip in use.

It's very important that the clew is the right height to sheet properly to the sheet fairlead on the cabintop. This will ensure the proper amount of twist by providing the right amount of tension on the leech and foot. Figuring out the clew height takes some sailmaker knowlege. If the clew height isn't right the sail will be worse than going bare headed.

Judy B
Retired Sailmaker.

DrJudyB · Jun 26, 2020

In my personal opinion, reefing a jib in rough conditions would be difficult. You have to fight wildly flapping cloth. I don't have personal experience, but I would expect that It's easier to hank on a new one and stuff the old one down below.

A high wind jib for your boat will weigh around 8-11 pounds, and fold up in a pretty small bag.

jssailem · Jun 26, 2020

@srimes I applaud your research with locals and your following weather development. Not sure what resource you are checking. Would suggest the Windy app as a consideration. I find it’s information reliable. The forecast is using sound methods to produce report info you can follow.
As you say, there is a wind bomb just off shore. Not sure how far you intend to go.

jssailem · Jun 26, 2020

With Dr Judy regarding the removal and raise of a smaller sail than reefing a jib. Sail changes are quick and more certain. Nothing worse than trying to sail with a reefed jib that comes in tied on your foredeck while your bucking a storm condition. I think it takes longer to reef a jib than to remove a raise a new jib. Then there is the fact that your foredeck is cleaner without the wad of reefed Sail lying there.

rgranger · Jun 26, 2020

Ron20324 said:
Try BaconSails.com for used, or they can make new.

jssailem · Jun 27, 2020

Windy is phone, tablet/iPad, and computer. They provide NOAA GFS, NAM, and EURO Modeling, which gives the best (my opinion) long range data analysis. Windy provides basic, aviation, and maritime weather. It is the staple I use. When working on Hurricane forecasts I combine with NOAA weather data, Hurricane Hunter flight Data and local forecasts.

There is great info out there. If your alert to the weather resources available you can decrease the chance you will be engulfed by bad weather while at sea. The 24/48 hour marine forecasts for the Brookings area are very good.

Daveinet · Jul 24, 2020

While you are at it, you may also want to invest in a longer rudder. It doesn't take much for that boat to get healed over enough to pull the rudder out of the water. While technically the boat should turn up wind when it heals heavily, that didn't really happen very quickly. The skipper steered upwind, but the rudder came out of the water, which meant the boat did not turn up wind in a timely fashion. I don't know about you, but I do not like the idea of loss of control. The boat is really tender, so reduced sail area is not the only thing that needs attention.

jssailem · Jul 25, 2020

They look ok. Knowing you are not looking for racing sails and that you are managing your sailing budget they look to be very serviceable. Check the threads on the sails. It heavy winds the cloth may be good but the sails shred at the seams.

Your idea of a drifter makes sense when we get the light winds of summer days here on the Northern Pacific Coast.

DrJudyB · Jul 26, 2020

dlochner said:
Stress on the rig comes not only from wind speed, but also sea state, sail weight, and duration. A heavy sail may not blow out as quickly as a lighter weight Dacron sail, but the additional weight of the sail combined with increased wind speed, storm duration, and sea state will weigh heavily and destructively on the rig.

This is a common misconception. The size of the sail and the wind velocity are irrelevant when calculation maximum rigging loads. Maximum loads on the rig are determined solely by the righting movement of the boat. The area of the sail and the cloth weight are irrelevant to calculating the maximum loads on the mast, shrouds, and chainplates.

For most ballasted monohull sailboats, the maximum righting moment is at about 60 degrees of heel. If there’s enough wind to heel the boat to that point, that is the maximum static equilibrium load the rig will experience.

The sea state may produce addition loads on the hull and rig, but the heeling power produced by the Sails isn’t part of the equation.

Judy B
From Boat Stability

Daveinet · Jul 26, 2020

So to clarify - in light of the fact that it is scientifically provable that the physical weight of a sail will put more stress on the rig, then we assume that the amount of added weight must be negligible when compared to the righting moment of the boat?

Maybe to see this better, what is the approximate total weight of his lighter sails compared to his heavier sails? And then what is the righting force for a boat that size?

jssailem · Jul 26, 2020

It appears to me, based on Dr Judy’s info, that the boats righting moment is what controls the design engineers standing rig requirements.

My sense of this is if you choose to add heavy sails and lots of additional gear just means the boat will go beyond the point of no return in lower winds.

dlochner · Jul 26, 2020

DrJudyB said:
This is a common misconception. The size of the sail and the wind velocity are irrelevant when calculation maximum rigging loads. Maximum loads on the rig are determined solely by the righting movement of the boat. The area of the sail and the cloth weight are irrelevant to calculating the maximum loads on the mast, shrouds, and chainplates.

For most ballasted monohull sailboats, the maximum righting moment is at about 60 degrees of heel. If there’s enough wind to heel the boat to that point, that is the maximum static equilibrium load the rig will experience.

The sea state may produce addition loads on the hull and rig, but the heeling power produced by the Sails isn’t part of the equation.

Judy B
From Boat Stability

@DrJudyB I think we talking about different things. Reading back over my original post, I wasn't talking about stability and keeping the keel pointing down and the mast up. I was really trying to address the question about the design purpose of the boat, was it suitable for long passages in heavy conditions, and implicitly whether having a heavy air sail would lead one to sailing in conditions the boat wasn't designed for.

You'll get no disagreement from me, that a 50 sq ft sail will generate the same force regardless if it is made with 6 oz Dacron or 10 oz or carbon fiber. However, when the going gets tough and the sail starts flogging and luffing and filling a lighter sail will have less mass slamming against the forestay than a heavier sail; which in a boat built for inland and coastal sailing could be problematic.

Your answer does a much better job answer the question the OP posted elsewhere today on capsizing, especially the drawing. I tried to use words to describe what your drawing does so much better.