I am looking for a new used boat and have found one that looks quite nice. It is the model and size I want at a very attractive price. I looked over it and everything looks in great shape, I am very surprised. It needs some cleaning up and varnish of course but no problem there. What concerns me is the engine. It is an Atomic 4 which I am told was reconditioned 2 years ago. What concerns me is when I pulled the dipstick the oil was milky, it did not look like oil. The only other time I have seen anything like this was when water got inside the oil. There was also oil or fuel in the bilge. Any ideas on what this can mean?
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Water...
water in the oil. I would walk away from the deal unless it included a complete rebuild or replacement (preferable) of the engine.
water in the oil. I would walk away from the deal unless it included a complete rebuild or replacement (preferable) of the engine.
I'm with Bill
I would walk away. If you really love the boat price out the cost of a new Yanmar replacement and go back to the seller.
I would walk away. If you really love the boat price out the cost of a new Yanmar replacement and go back to the seller.
Atomic 4
Atomic Fours are simple to work on ...You have oil in the water.... coul be a blown head gasket at least or a cracked block at worst Pop the head off ,its easy ...if you see a blown gasket then take the head to an automotive shop to see if it is warped.... if its not the head gasket then Id probably walk away..you need to find a root cause Even if it is just a head gasket you may need to tear the motor down to replace the bearings and other stuff that does not get on well with water
Atomic Fours are simple to work on ...You have oil in the water.... coul be a blown head gasket at least or a cracked block at worst Pop the head off ,its easy ...if you see a blown gasket then take the head to an automotive shop to see if it is warped.... if its not the head gasket then Id probably walk away..you need to find a root cause Even if it is just a head gasket you may need to tear the motor down to replace the bearings and other stuff that does not get on well with water
might be nothing
Hello, There MIGHT be water in the oil. It could also just be condensation. You should run the engine until it reaches operating temperature, turn it down, then check the oil again. When the engine is turned off, water can condense from the air in the block. This can give the oil a milky appearance. This is especially true if you pull the oil fill cap and look at the top of the cap. Get the engine hot enough to evaporate the water, then look again. Of course, as others have mentioned, there may be a serious problem with the engine, but rule out the simple stuff first. Good luck, Barry
Hello, There MIGHT be water in the oil. It could also just be condensation. You should run the engine until it reaches operating temperature, turn it down, then check the oil again. When the engine is turned off, water can condense from the air in the block. This can give the oil a milky appearance. This is especially true if you pull the oil fill cap and look at the top of the cap. Get the engine hot enough to evaporate the water, then look again. Of course, as others have mentioned, there may be a serious problem with the engine, but rule out the simple stuff first. Good luck, Barry
Just the Fact...
...that it was rebuilt only 2 years ago tells me problems. Especially if there is water in the oil, already. My brother had an A4 rebuilt because of continuous problems he was having. The rebuild didn't offer him very much satisfaction. It is a gas engine and prone to problems. He later had it replaced with a Yanmar 3GM30F he bought on Orrs Island and was very pleased. IMHO, without a fix included in the purchase, I'd walk away.
...that it was rebuilt only 2 years ago tells me problems. Especially if there is water in the oil, already. My brother had an A4 rebuilt because of continuous problems he was having. The rebuild didn't offer him very much satisfaction. It is a gas engine and prone to problems. He later had it replaced with a Yanmar 3GM30F he bought on Orrs Island and was very pleased. IMHO, without a fix included in the purchase, I'd walk away.
Don't start her without the owner's OK
I agree with Barry that it could be simple, but I certainly would not start it myself. I would ask the owner. Just in case it is worse than condensation. Atomic 4, like Diesel engines, will siphon water in if running the starter a long time without shutting the water intake valve. That water will find its way in the crankcase. Best bet would be to change the oil & filter before starting her up. At current owners expense of course. Then have a mechanic present to check the engine thoroughly once it seems to be running. There is a lot of info available on the Net about the Atomic 4. Look it up. Don't worry about loosing the deal. If the engine is trouble, then you really don't have that hot of a deal. Good Luck
I agree with Barry that it could be simple, but I certainly would not start it myself. I would ask the owner. Just in case it is worse than condensation. Atomic 4, like Diesel engines, will siphon water in if running the starter a long time without shutting the water intake valve. That water will find its way in the crankcase. Best bet would be to change the oil & filter before starting her up. At current owners expense of course. Then have a mechanic present to check the engine thoroughly once it seems to be running. There is a lot of info available on the Net about the Atomic 4. Look it up. Don't worry about loosing the deal. If the engine is trouble, then you really don't have that hot of a deal. Good Luck
Boat has been sitting
Thanks to everyone for their feedback, you have confirmed my worst fears. Not sure if it matters or not but on the condensation suggestion the boat has been sitting on the hard all season. Does this support the theory that it is condensation since it has given it more time to settle into the oil? I am not real confident in this boat anymore. I priced a new Diesel and it with the boat cost exceeds what other boats of this vintage are going for.
Thanks to everyone for their feedback, you have confirmed my worst fears. Not sure if it matters or not but on the condensation suggestion the boat has been sitting on the hard all season. Does this support the theory that it is condensation since it has given it more time to settle into the oil? I am not real confident in this boat anymore. I priced a new Diesel and it with the boat cost exceeds what other boats of this vintage are going for.
condensation
Hi Tim, The longer the boat sits, the more condensation there will be. It shouldn't cost you anything to have the owner or broker run the engine. If you are interested in the boat, get the owner or broker to demonstrate the engine. Let it get to operating temp, which shouldn't take more than 10-15 minutes. Then check the oil again. Now you will know enough to either walk away or pursue it further. Another concern is the bilge. How did fuel or water get into the bilge? And, if it is fuel, you CANNOT run the engine until it is out. It sounds like the broker or owner needs to do some work on this boat before it can be properly shown. One last thing, it sounds like the boat really can't be sold in it's present condition. The season, especially in Maine, is almost over. If the boat isn't sold soon, it's probably not going to be sold for another 6 months or so. If you are serious about the boat, this may be a good opportunity for you. Make the owner a real low offer, contingent on survey results, engine in good working condition, etc. This could be your chance to get a good boat at a great price. Good luck, Barry
Hi Tim, The longer the boat sits, the more condensation there will be. It shouldn't cost you anything to have the owner or broker run the engine. If you are interested in the boat, get the owner or broker to demonstrate the engine. Let it get to operating temp, which shouldn't take more than 10-15 minutes. Then check the oil again. Now you will know enough to either walk away or pursue it further. Another concern is the bilge. How did fuel or water get into the bilge? And, if it is fuel, you CANNOT run the engine until it is out. It sounds like the broker or owner needs to do some work on this boat before it can be properly shown. One last thing, it sounds like the boat really can't be sold in it's present condition. The season, especially in Maine, is almost over. If the boat isn't sold soon, it's probably not going to be sold for another 6 months or so. If you are serious about the boat, this may be a good opportunity for you. Make the owner a real low offer, contingent on survey results, engine in good working condition, etc. This could be your chance to get a good boat at a great price. Good luck, Barry
If it were me........
If you want to run the motor, I would change the oil 1st... and then run, then check again. (wonder if it turns over or starts) Regardless, you need to go into the motor. I would price a rebuild, an negotiate price from there. (dont forget labor to r/r)
If you want to run the motor, I would change the oil 1st... and then run, then check again. (wonder if it turns over or starts) Regardless, you need to go into the motor. I would price a rebuild, an negotiate price from there. (dont forget labor to r/r)
pinhole in cyl wall/
I had the same problem on a v-8 boat engine and it turned out to be a hole in the cyl wall from the water jacket. I also had an atomic 4 that had milky oil on a '76 Ranger 37. The exhaust design was poor and allowed water to reverse into the engine when in a following sea. The gate valve to prevent this was very difficult to access. In any event water appears to be in your oil. If the engine runs well then maybe its the ehaust system which can be corrected I a sure, with a new type aterr lift muffler? Good luck
I had the same problem on a v-8 boat engine and it turned out to be a hole in the cyl wall from the water jacket. I also had an atomic 4 that had milky oil on a '76 Ranger 37. The exhaust design was poor and allowed water to reverse into the engine when in a following sea. The gate valve to prevent this was very difficult to access. In any event water appears to be in your oil. If the engine runs well then maybe its the ehaust system which can be corrected I a sure, with a new type aterr lift muffler? Good luck
My 2 cents on the A4
I've had a couple of boats with A4's in them and they are dependable engines. Don't listen to all the horror stories because a lot of them are told by people who have either never had an A4 or who prefer the story versus the facts. Don Moyer at Moyer Marine (easily found on Google) is the heads-up guru on the A4. Plenty of parts support and a great email notes service where they send stuff out. For $2,500, you can have the A4 completely rebuilt by Moyer Marine and you can also get an electric fuel pump (I'd recommend that) and electronic ignition. There's even a fresh-water cooling option. So, for about $3,000 to $3,200, you can get the A4 totally rebuilt and some nice upgrades. That beats $8,000 for a diesel repower and if you are going to repower, repower with a NEW engine. It saves headaches in the future. I like the A4 alot and it's only short coming in being gas is that you aren't far between the pumps on fill-ups. Gas engines don't get the mileage diesels do, but, then again, that $5,000 you save on a diesel repower will buy a lot of gas. Good luck.
I've had a couple of boats with A4's in them and they are dependable engines. Don't listen to all the horror stories because a lot of them are told by people who have either never had an A4 or who prefer the story versus the facts. Don Moyer at Moyer Marine (easily found on Google) is the heads-up guru on the A4. Plenty of parts support and a great email notes service where they send stuff out. For $2,500, you can have the A4 completely rebuilt by Moyer Marine and you can also get an electric fuel pump (I'd recommend that) and electronic ignition. There's even a fresh-water cooling option. So, for about $3,000 to $3,200, you can get the A4 totally rebuilt and some nice upgrades. That beats $8,000 for a diesel repower and if you are going to repower, repower with a NEW engine. It saves headaches in the future. I like the A4 alot and it's only short coming in being gas is that you aren't far between the pumps on fill-ups. Gas engines don't get the mileage diesels do, but, then again, that $5,000 you save on a diesel repower will buy a lot of gas. Good luck.
Oil/ Water
If the boat has been on the hard for a while, this almost has to be just condensation. Remember, oil floats on water. If this engine has not been run in a while, any water from an internal leak would be on the bottom of the pan. Pull the drain plug in the presence of the owner. If oil comes out, negotiate. If water comes out, walk away or try to get the boat for a steal. Best of luck. Bryon
If the boat has been on the hard for a while, this almost has to be just condensation. Remember, oil floats on water. If this engine has not been run in a while, any water from an internal leak would be on the bottom of the pan. Pull the drain plug in the presence of the owner. If oil comes out, negotiate. If water comes out, walk away or try to get the boat for a steal. Best of luck. Bryon
Water ? Oil
If there is water in the oil of any engine ther Will be or is now a mechanical problem. Changing the oil will not help. If its been sitting the acids in the oil have alreasy been activated by the water and are slowly eating away the inside of the engine, bearings seals pistons ect. Walk away from ythis project unless you are mech inclined and wish to overhaul an engine. I have over 30 Years of knowledge in this field Sorry Uwe
If there is water in the oil of any engine ther Will be or is now a mechanical problem. Changing the oil will not help. If its been sitting the acids in the oil have alreasy been activated by the water and are slowly eating away the inside of the engine, bearings seals pistons ect. Walk away from ythis project unless you are mech inclined and wish to overhaul an engine. I have over 30 Years of knowledge in this field Sorry Uwe
Replace
Replace. A friend bought a boat with an A4. Rebuilt that one. Not good enough. Gave it away and replaced with a factory rebuild. Still not good enough. It is a gasoline engine, after all, and a leak or problem with the fuel system is a HUGE and potentially disastrous problem. So he sold the seocond rebuild for $400 and installed a Yanmar diesel. Boat is a Triton yawl. No more problems.
Replace. A friend bought a boat with an A4. Rebuilt that one. Not good enough. Gave it away and replaced with a factory rebuild. Still not good enough. It is a gasoline engine, after all, and a leak or problem with the fuel system is a HUGE and potentially disastrous problem. So he sold the seocond rebuild for $400 and installed a Yanmar diesel. Boat is a Triton yawl. No more problems.
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