Use of a generator head?
- Thread starter Paul F
- Start date
- Status
For an extra couple of hundred...
...you can get a nice, quiet, Honda 1000W generator and not have to deal with installation and running up the hours on your engine. Not to mention the wear and tear of constant idling. Just my eversohumble opinion. Cheers, Bob
...you can get a nice, quiet, Honda 1000W generator and not have to deal with installation and running up the hours on your engine. Not to mention the wear and tear of constant idling. Just my eversohumble opinion. Cheers, Bob
BAD idea
1. Most sailboat auxillary engines are sized fairly closely to the boat’s requirements, hence you may not be able to give up 5 HP of “motive” power. 2. The side loading of an Engine Mounted 5HP Generator will be significant, as will the mechanical mounting & belting requirements. 3. You’ll be running your ‘large’ (how many HP? - ie: 20 HP) engine to generate 2.6 kW of electrical power (it's not particularily efficient @ 2.6 kW/5HP). You’ll be paying the costs (fuel, wear, maintenance, etc) of running (say) a 20 HP engine, to get 5 HP (if you need that much) benefit. The engine will be running in an “underloaded” condition, which diesel’s don’t like. 4. By the time you mount, shiv, and belt this generator - the cost will (at least) equal the previously mentioned Honda 1000W Nice try ... but I don’t think so. Respectfully, Gord From the link: Northstar Belt Driven Generator Head — 2900 Watt Add a 5 HP engine and produce portable electric power! Brushless design for reliable performance and low maintenance. Delivers 2600 continuous Watts. 21.7 Amps at 120 Volts, 10.8 Amps at 240 Volts. Has two 15 Amp, 120 Volt outlets and two 15 Amp 240 Volt outlets. Pushbutton reset circuit breakers. 7/8in. x 1.50in. longshaft has 3/16in. keyway. 13 3/4in.L x 7 1/4in.W x 7 3/4in.H.
1. Most sailboat auxillary engines are sized fairly closely to the boat’s requirements, hence you may not be able to give up 5 HP of “motive” power. 2. The side loading of an Engine Mounted 5HP Generator will be significant, as will the mechanical mounting & belting requirements. 3. You’ll be running your ‘large’ (how many HP? - ie: 20 HP) engine to generate 2.6 kW of electrical power (it's not particularily efficient @ 2.6 kW/5HP). You’ll be paying the costs (fuel, wear, maintenance, etc) of running (say) a 20 HP engine, to get 5 HP (if you need that much) benefit. The engine will be running in an “underloaded” condition, which diesel’s don’t like. 4. By the time you mount, shiv, and belt this generator - the cost will (at least) equal the previously mentioned Honda 1000W Nice try ... but I don’t think so. Respectfully, Gord From the link: Northstar Belt Driven Generator Head — 2900 Watt Add a 5 HP engine and produce portable electric power! Brushless design for reliable performance and low maintenance. Delivers 2600 continuous Watts. 21.7 Amps at 120 Volts, 10.8 Amps at 240 Volts. Has two 15 Amp, 120 Volt outlets and two 15 Amp 240 Volt outlets. Pushbutton reset circuit breakers. 7/8in. x 1.50in. longshaft has 3/16in. keyway. 13 3/4in.L x 7 1/4in.W x 7 3/4in.H.
not to mention
In order to generate AC power the generator RPM has to be maintained at a constant 3600RPM for a 2 pole generator or 1800RPM for a 4 pole. Now you have added some type of governor arrangement to your engine to maintain constant RPM over varying electrical loads. Buy a dedicated generator, or go with a large 12 or 24 volt alternator, big house battery, and an inverter.
In order to generate AC power the generator RPM has to be maintained at a constant 3600RPM for a 2 pole generator or 1800RPM for a 4 pole. Now you have added some type of governor arrangement to your engine to maintain constant RPM over varying electrical loads. Buy a dedicated generator, or go with a large 12 or 24 volt alternator, big house battery, and an inverter.
Well Paul, it's unanimous.
Nice try but reinventing the wheel is probably easier to do. But keep looking. That's how we got the systems on board that WORK.
Nice try but reinventing the wheel is probably easier to do. But keep looking. That's how we got the systems on board that WORK.
So, no one has tried it, lol
Thanks, for the response, be it a little negative. I think there may be some value in running off of diesel fuel rather than bringing gasoline on board. I have an old 2QM15 that is rated at 14 hp. It is a stong 14 hp though and pushs the boat just fine. The generator would only be run at anchor so any hp used would not be an overload on the engine. Again the best factor is not having gasoline on board.
Thanks, for the response, be it a little negative. I think there may be some value in running off of diesel fuel rather than bringing gasoline on board. I have an old 2QM15 that is rated at 14 hp. It is a stong 14 hp though and pushs the boat just fine. The generator would only be run at anchor so any hp used would not be an overload on the engine. Again the best factor is not having gasoline on board.
for so manty reasons ...
You're right (Paul) as far as you go - but, you'll still be running your Prime Mover (expensive) at a reduced load (not healthy for diesels). Don't ignore the significant installation costs (this isn't just a bolt-on). Perhaps no-one's tried it, because it's an obviously BAD idea. Respectfully,Gord
You're right (Paul) as far as you go - but, you'll still be running your Prime Mover (expensive) at a reduced load (not healthy for diesels). Don't ignore the significant installation costs (this isn't just a bolt-on). Perhaps no-one's tried it, because it's an obviously BAD idea. Respectfully,Gord
YES IT DOES WORK but
There was a cruiser here with a cal 44 (Big Boat) that installed one of those on his engine and it worked well,...BUT he had to have a hertz meter connected to the unit so that he could gauge the rpms needed to push what he was using,..Ill explaine in the US all electronics are 60 hertz europe is 50 I think so lets say he was running a air conditioner he would have to crank the motor get the rpm to 60 hertz then cut on the air and the hertz would drop (drag on the motor/rpm drop) so he would QUICKLY rev the motor to get the rpms to supply 60 hertz as not to burn up the air unit, this is why gensets are expensive they read the drag then adgust the motor to componsate. So the quick answer is it will work but there are drawbacks to this cheap and viable option. Also the draw on the motor was pretty strong cut the boat from 8 knots to 6.5 while running. Hope this helps,.. As a side note I have been trying to figure out a governor that would maintain the rpms on drag to no avail yet.
There was a cruiser here with a cal 44 (Big Boat) that installed one of those on his engine and it worked well,...BUT he had to have a hertz meter connected to the unit so that he could gauge the rpms needed to push what he was using,..Ill explaine in the US all electronics are 60 hertz europe is 50 I think so lets say he was running a air conditioner he would have to crank the motor get the rpm to 60 hertz then cut on the air and the hertz would drop (drag on the motor/rpm drop) so he would QUICKLY rev the motor to get the rpms to supply 60 hertz as not to burn up the air unit, this is why gensets are expensive they read the drag then adgust the motor to componsate. So the quick answer is it will work but there are drawbacks to this cheap and viable option. Also the draw on the motor was pretty strong cut the boat from 8 knots to 6.5 while running. Hope this helps,.. As a side note I have been trying to figure out a governor that would maintain the rpms on drag to no avail yet.
Another idea
The others are correct the generator head will cost a lot to install and will not maintain a correct phaze of 60 hertz. Basically running the control head slow will cause your ac appliances to pull a higher load and over heat. I agree that using the prime mover to run the AC is not cost efficent however: I installed a 200 AMP Big frame alternator and a 90 amp small frame alternator. Connected to my Heart 2000 AMP Inverter will run my 16000 BTU reverse Cycle AC continuously from 1400 RPM up.
The others are correct the generator head will cost a lot to install and will not maintain a correct phaze of 60 hertz. Basically running the control head slow will cause your ac appliances to pull a higher load and over heat. I agree that using the prime mover to run the AC is not cost efficent however: I installed a 200 AMP Big frame alternator and a 90 amp small frame alternator. Connected to my Heart 2000 AMP Inverter will run my 16000 BTU reverse Cycle AC continuously from 1400 RPM up.
LP, how long have you been running this setup?
The reason I ask is two fold. I don't think it will stand the test of time. First the frame that the large alternator is mounted on is bolted to the engine stringer, not to the engine side of the motor mounts. I tried this,,,once. It tore up the cutlass bearing because the engine was pulled up into the air from belt tension and the shaft was forced into misalignment. The second problem I see is that the 90 amp alternator is being driven by the same belt as the large alternator and that only 20% of the pulley has any contact with the drive belt. Oh hell, I see three problems! You have only one belt driving this load. You need TWO. That belt will be toast in no time and your engine will be a no-go. Sorry, been there done t,,,,,,. On photos #44 and #45 on my web site, you will see my present setup. The frame that holds all that stuff used to be mounted on the engine stringers. So I knoweth what I speaketh. It was horribly loud too.
The reason I ask is two fold. I don't think it will stand the test of time. First the frame that the large alternator is mounted on is bolted to the engine stringer, not to the engine side of the motor mounts. I tried this,,,once. It tore up the cutlass bearing because the engine was pulled up into the air from belt tension and the shaft was forced into misalignment. The second problem I see is that the 90 amp alternator is being driven by the same belt as the large alternator and that only 20% of the pulley has any contact with the drive belt. Oh hell, I see three problems! You have only one belt driving this load. You need TWO. That belt will be toast in no time and your engine will be a no-go. Sorry, been there done t,,,,,,. On photos #44 and #45 on my web site, you will see my present setup. The frame that holds all that stuff used to be mounted on the engine stringers. So I knoweth what I speaketh. It was horribly loud too.
I’ve driven nails with a spade, but wouldn’t normally recommend using a shovel use as a hammer. However, being an old electrician, I can advise that side cutters (linesman’s pliers) ARE a hammer (but hammers make very poor side cutters)...
Yes, it could be made to work - but it’s not worth the effort and cost required to address all the issues (& more) that have been raised here. Wasn’t the Louisiana Purchase tagged “Jefferson's folly*”? Sorry, I think Fred’s right in his critique of the pictured set-up. PS: I also think the boat is in urgent need of thwartship trimming - she may be about to roll over *See “Social Security Model Reveals Louisiana Purchase Was Bad Deal” ~ by Gene Steuerle: http://www.taxanalysts.com/www/econpers.nsf/0/285a6098eb97e9a1852566da006d14d4?OpenDocument FWIW, Gord- Status