Upgrading sailboats, mariner

[dwdrums801]

Thank you for all the replies, good links and advice.
These pics were what the owner sent me and I'm actually going to see the boat Sunday morning. The owner has power washed / cleaned and set everything up for me to look at and said its ready to sail and the motor runs. I plan on borrowing a trailer from a friend while I search for a used one. I'm not worried about a trailer as the boat will be on a mooring infront of my house all summer and only moved twice. I also have a brand new 9.9 mercury for a canoe/dingy, I figured I might be able to use as a backup. I have considered waiting until next season to buy a more expensive/ complete boat but I at least have to go look at this boat before I pass up a good deal as there's not too many boats with a cabin and a shallow draft. I have a car port next to my house I plan to do all the work myself under with the help of my father. He's been working on his boats for years and I'm kind of a do it yourselfer. Although boats and jet skis are not new to my family and I, I am the first one to find an interest in sailing. And I tent to dive head first into things and fill in e gaps later so I don't know much about rigging or sailing for that matter. No friends into it either.

How can I determine the condition of the sails? Do they stretch over time? Are small rips repairable? How expensive are reefing points to get sown in?

What about the condition of the fiberglass hull? Are there anyways to determine the structural integrity of the fiberglass?

Guys thanks again for all the replies, hopefully next time I post here I'll be a proud Mariner owner.

 

[Richard19068]

If it has a motor that runs that's a big plus. If you have a friend that knows anything about sails and sailboats it would be a good idea to take them along to confirm what the owner says about it being ready to sail. If it is it sounds like a good deal. Go for it and have fun! Either way, it's only $300. Not a life and death decision.

 

[Joe]

If you leave it on the mooring all summer, I recommend a few coats of anti fouling paint on the bottom. The ablative type is probably the best choice since you will store the boat out of the water off season.

 

[Chris Patterson]

Richard said it all. 300 bucks? I've spent more on dinners out. And with a running motor? Wow. Hell, I wanna buy it..

 

[Indysailor]

It's tough to judge sails if you've never run the fabric through your hands. Generally, the softer they feel, the more worn they are, and in this case it seems likely that they are quite old. Newer sails feel stiffer, are more slippery, will make more sound when you handle them and older sails will act more like a blanket in your hands. However, even if they are old and soft, they may be fine for a few years. Check the seams and pull at them in several directions to see how well the threads are holding up. Rub the sail fabric and see if any grit (not dirt, but rather like the fabric is disintegrating) comes off on your fingers. Look for holes, repairs and patches, weak spots, etc. the leech of the sail tends to take a beating, so examine from one end to the other for signs of weakness, pulling and stretching in your hands. It's a tough call, but this could be worth a couple thousand to you, and the sails, being your engine, will need to be in good shape. Speaking from experience, it's good as a beginner to not have your most important equipment suck.

 

[lillia28]

I think the first question is, what do you want from this boat? Do you want to learn to sail, get your feet wet in the boat ownership pool, live aboard, sail to Tahiti? This boat is perfect for some of those things, horrible for others. If you want to hack around, learn to sail, have some fun and move to a bigger boat in a few years, this could be a good start. If you are thinking of sailing to Tahiti, not so much. As mentioned, a trailer is you first priority. Moving and storing a boat soaks up a lot of "restoration" cash, if you can't do it cheaply. Then take a hard look at the sails, good sails are important and can be expensive. Dont know how to do that? pick up a copy of "Inspecting the aging sail boat". Read it and then take another look. Know that getting out of a boat is harder than getting into it. It's easier to buy than sell.
look around at whats out there. Mariners are basically Rhodes 19 with a cuddy. Nice sailing boats. BUT, if you really want an OD 25, look for an OD 25. No matter how well the Mariner treats you, you will be looking wistfully at every 25 that sails by. Sailing should make you happy, not jealous. live your dreams, not someone elses. Check out the OD 27, i've seen some cheap ones around. Now that is a Boat!
Lou

 

[lillia28]

Check Craig's list. A c&c 24 for $500.00 in Hungtington. Worth a look!

Lou

 

[Scott T-Bird]

If you bring a light hammer (not a framing hammer), you can tap on the fiberglass to hear if it is solid. Don't rap on it hard, just a very light tapping so it doesn't alarm the seller. You want to listen for a firm rap sound, not a thud. I thud will indicate delaminated or rotten core underneath the fiberglass. The areas to test will be the cockpit floor, any side decking around the coach roof and bow, and also test the coach roof. All the water left in the cockpit (shown in the photos) is a signal that soft cores could be an issue. The boat is likely not to be worth the repairs if you find significant areas where the tapping sounds like a thud. You can live with some minor areas of soft deck, I think. I have some areas like that on the side decks myself. I think I'd be most concerned if you find soft core in the cockpit and anywhere around the mast, bow or shrouds.

 

[Steve L22188]

What did you find this morning?

Have been following this topic with interest...you're getting good advice - as always - from the wise folks on this site.

What did you find when you looked at the boat this morning?

Much of this boils down to a simple question: do you want to spend your time working on your boat, or sailing on your boat? If you're willing to spend some time and elbow grease and money to get the boat ready, this might be a deal.

If you'd rather spend time and money and energy sailing - look for a boat in better shape. It appears to be a buyer's market right now.

 

[dwdrums801]

Guys thanks again for all the suggestions and advice, I have about 3 pages worth of info I jotted down. I got to look the boat over today and found the sails to be in very good condition. This boat has sat for awhile but the sails were always kept neatly indoors with the engine. Just a few rust stains on the main. hopefully it will come clean. has both the main and jib. I plan to use this boat to teach myself how to sail with hopes of exploring all of the Peconic Bay, Shinnecock canal and Great south bay of Longisland out of my home port, Napeague Harbor. I don't mind putting some hard work into the boat as it will make me appreciate it and respect it a lot more. My thoughts on buying a boat that needs some work is that if I buy a boat in decent condition(for a lot more money) everything will still be slightly used and I don't know how it was taken care of. IF I buy everything brand new (buy a cheap boat) slowly as I enjoy the boat then when I'm done Ill know that everything is brand new and of good quality. The boat doesn't need much to be sailable which is really all I want to do at the moment. I needs a fresh coat of bottom paint, The wood all needs to be sanded and stained.

The rudder looks to be in working condition but I will deff want to refinish it and rebuild it over the winter. It does come with the kick up version. The keel needs to be sanded and painted too but moves up and down nicely.

All the outside lines/ropes will need to be replaced and a few of the pulleys looked to be worn down pretty good. What diameter rope does the mariner use? Are there different types of rope I should know about when ordering line? Does any marine rated rope work?

Theres no electric/lights or anything to that matter on this boat. Are there any good websites with wiring diagrams and do it yourself boat wiring instructions. I plan to mount a small solar panel next season.

Where can I learn how to rig this thing? any videos or websites?

I think I'm going to pull the trigger on this boat friday. I just want to put together a parts list of everything I will need to get it sailing this season first.

 

[Indysailor]

Give Rudy Nickerson a call at DR Marine. He'll set you up with the right sized lines for you Mariner. And I believe there is a pretty active group online for the Mariner. http://www.drmarine.com/categories.asp?cat=66

 

[SchwarckT]

Here's something you can find under the "Boat Info" tab on this site. It's a later model, but mostly still applies to your boat.
http://oday.sailboatowners.com/images/kb/pdf/797.pdf
The boat you are looking at appears to be in a lot better shape than the one that I bought which needed some major repairs to get it sailing again.

 

[jepomer]

You will get lots of nay-sayers regarding "free" or almost free boats. Much of it depends on your personal goals and skills. Inexpensive boats can be a good way to gain experience on a budget but expect to do most of the work yourself AND like to do the work, learning skills as you go forward.

This article from "Good Old Boat" discusses various aspects of this route.

But it is important starting out to have a good assemblage of parts that will make the boat work. Look for a solid hull and deck. Watch out for wet interiors especially when the ribs are made of wood (this will be a very expensive/time consuming repair). It needs to have a mast and boom. The rigging will probably need to be replaced soon but should be good enough for some "sea trials". Sails must be "serviceable".

If it holds water, then you can probably start to sail it before needing to invest too much money into it. This will get you started, a good step above what you have now.

http://www.goodoldboat.com/reader_services/articles/5yearplan.php
Good Old Boat - Budget Boating article

If you have not basic mechanical skills and only want to sail, save up enough money and look for a boat that needs only basic cleaning. I have purchased several boats well under $2,000 that had a trailer, outboard, and needed only cleaning to go sailing.

Good luck!

 

[Chris Patterson]

Man, you are sailin. Good set of rags, good motor, short of the hull cracked in half.....nah....you're sailin. A lot of decent old boats that have been put to pasture have been resurrected this way. And he is going to clean it up? Nuff said. The lines you need are as inexpensive on this site as you're subject to find. And pulleys are called blocks. The roller inside is a sheave. It's a rigging term. (A couple of tips)..

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

dwdrum8091, Sailboatowners hosts alot of manufacturers and Oday is one of them. Refere to www.odayowners.com and then look under boat information for the specfic model and you will find where information can be found. I am not sure of owners manuals but there are some contacts there.

You have been given good advice but I know you are anxious so let me put in my two cents worth as a dealer. If boats being considered are in poor shape, then look at he costs of materials and other labor charges that you would not be able to do. In some cases it is not worth it. Many customers wanted project boats but about 75% after working on them decided it was too much missing the sailing part and sold the boat.

The biggest question as pointed out, what do you want to do with the boat. then look at boats with your criteria in mind. That will keep you from looking at everything which can be a waste of time. Consider the costs and problems associated with each boat that you look at as to its value on the market. With smaller boats, do you want a trailer or not. Then look at the area where you intend to sail and consider those cost associated with a slip, haul out each season and storage. Some places will not allow owners to store boats on stands or trailer due to HOA rules. The list goes on but in the end you need to know the realization of the costs associated with whatever boat you get.

 

[shemandr]

. What diameter rope does the mariner use? Are there different types of rope I should know about when ordering line? Does any marine rated rope work?
No. Don't use three strand nylon. Use braided dacron for you sheets and you may want to spend the bucks on some very low stretch line for the halyards. By very low stretch I mean less than 1%. There is ultra low stretch too. Nowdays with the high tech materials being used in line you don't need very much diameter. I just looked and one 1/4" line had a strength of 4,000 lbs. That's way enough. But the sheets should be comfortable in your hands. You want strong UV resistance too. Make sure the line runs smoothly through your blocks. Buy lines longer than you think you need.

Theres no electric/lights or anything to that matter on this boat. Are there any good websites with wiring diagrams and do it yourself boat wiring instructions. I plan to mount a small solar panel next season.

Forget electric this season. That's a project for the off season.

Where can I learn how to rig this thing? any videos or websites?
Don't know of any website or video but they probably exist.
For starters, are the halyards let internally in the mast or exterior of the mast? Take a close look at the gooseneck (Boom connection to mast) and make sure hardware is complete. You'll need a shackle for the headboard on the main if it has one. These are often long and should lock. And, you'll need shackles for the clew to the boom and tack to the boom or mast. You should have a two part block system for the mainsheet and you'll probably want a cam cleat on the lower side.
Does the jib have hanks? You'll need shackles to connect the jib to the tack fitting, and halyard. Sheets can be tied on.
Those are the basics.

I think I'm going to pull the trigger on this boat friday. I just want to put together a parts list of everything I will need to get it sailing this season first.

Good luck. Get it in the water and go sailing! Save Little Peconic Bay until you're comfortable with the boat. That can be a nasty stretch of water when the prevailing SW (15-18 its) sets up against an incoming current.

 

[dwdrums801]

Hello again everybody! So on my quest to find a trailer to bring this thing home I was offered a Macgregor venture 21 with a trailer, motor, and 2 sets of sails and a Genova with all new rigging and lines for $500 from a local boat yard. I haven't been able to put a pair of eyes on it yet as it was at another yard but I'm going to look at it tomorrow (tuesday). If the Macgregor is in better condition, which would you recommend for someone learning to sail in a very very shallow harbor with limited resources? Are parts easy to find? is Macgregor a reputable name?

 

[jwing]

I own a Mariner; I've never seen a Venture 21. I can vouch for the Mariner and the most excellent owners' association. Before I bought a boat, I did not have a clue how valuable a great owners' association is. Parts for the Mariner are readily available through DR Marine and the outfit that currently manufactures the Mariner: Stuart Marine. Most parts of any sailboat are not brand/model specific, so it's not a big issue.

If I were in your shoes, I'd view the boats as equivalent for the purposes of learning sailing and old boat ownership. Then I'd compare the two from the perspective of "How much time will I be working on this boat instead of sailing it?" I'd also consider the comfort of the cockpits. Forget about the cabin - too small on either boat to be a consideration. Big enough on either to be a very handy storage locker.

The Venture has a trailer and is $200 more. All else equivalent, I doubt you'll find a trailer for $200 that wont' need work to fit the Mariner. So my vote goes to the Venture.

 

[shemandr]

I'd vote for the Mariner as a better sailing boat. But that might not be the point of your choice. I concur with jwing that either will fit your use. The rest is a matter of practicalities. Sort of a Realsailitic to borrow a phrase from Russian speak.
Please make sure that trailer has a registration or you may end up with an unregisterable vehicle. At some point even the local law enforcement will balk at the 12 year old plates. And, what motor? You have to ask why the owner didn't sell the outboard, and the trailer and cut up the boat for the dump to make more than $500. If you look back at the Mariner, that's why there's no trailer.

 

[higgs]

I would bet you could get this boat for nothing. Before you do that, though, look it over carefully. Are the decks solid? Look over the rigging for any obvious flaws. Does the CB work? Any cracks on the rudder. Is the boom there? And the big one is a trailer. I would think a decent set of used sails for this boat can be found at a modest price as a lot of serious racers of smaller boats replace their sails yearly or even more often. The other thing to think about is getting rid of it when you want to move up.