Oh and I'll replace all the hoses as you advise - no point messing about, if I'm in there doing this work I may as well do it right and save going back later
Upgrades and advice - Hunter 40.5
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Not to be Jonny Raincloud but since all you are interested in is a flush before you close up the boat have you considered just filling a bucket in the galley and pouring that into the head before you leave?
As for the "hard work" you have not seen anything yet brother! Pulling hose is not fun. Pulling waste hose is even less.
As for the "hard work" you have not seen anything yet brother! Pulling hose is not fun. Pulling waste hose is even less.
Bill, simply because doing that doesn't clean out the line from the thru hull to the pump. I tried it that way for a while before I connected to the sink drain. The "stuff" in that hose still created a stink, until I did it right.
Perhaps I'm confused, I understood that the line from the thru-hull to the pump to be full of plain salt water (raw water not waste). Why the heck would that cause a problem?
Stu is right. The bugs (saltwater bacteria, not waste) in the water convert the sulfate in the intake line seawater to sulfide and it will stink the first time you flush, in addition to a few bubbles while you're away. You close the through-hull when you leave, for safety but also to make certain there is no oxygen and that barnacles don't grow in the hose; however, the anaerobic bacteria survive.
It all depends on personal tolerance. I understand the problem but can't see adding one more item to my checklist. But the solution is simple enough.
I think I can explain it so that all of ya'll can get it...
Teeing the head intake line into the head sink drain line provides a choice of drawing flush water from TWO sources: pulling sea water in through the thru-hull...and pulling fresh water out of the sink. I suppose it COULD do both at the same time if you run water down the sink while pulling in sea water through the thru-hull, but it makes NO sense to do that.
The sole and only purpose of teeing the head intake line into the head sink drain line is to provide a safe source of clean fresh water to rinse the sea water out of the system before the boat will sit. To do that, close the seacock and fill the sink with clean fresh water. Flush the toilet. Because the seacock is closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the sink, rinsing all the sea water out of the entire system. And then, leave the seacock closed while you're away from the boat because open seacocks when no one is aboard result all too often in boats that sink in their slips.
Why do you want to rinse all the sea water out of the system? Because sea water is full of micro--and not so micro-organisms that, when left to sit and stagnate in the head intake line, pump and channel in the rim of the bowl, die, decay and STINK. Just pouring water into the bowl only rinses out the bottom of the pump and the toilet discharge line...it does not--at least it SHOULD not!--recirculate bowl contents through the intake line, pump and channel in the rim of the bowl. But when the toilet pulls in clean water via the intake line, the WHOLE system--intake, pump, channel AND the discharge are rinsed out.
If you find yourself in a really skanky harbor, you could just close the seacock and put water down the sink every time you flush the toilet...then go back to flushing with sea water after you've left.
Does everyone get it now? If not, I can keep trying...
However...going with the Elegance for both heads would eliminate the sea water odor problem altogether. Plus, it's a no brainer for guests to use. I've never quite understood why so many owners opt to put a wonderful "just push the button" toilet in the master head where the only people who'll use it actually know at least a LITTLE about how to use a marine toilet...and give their totally clueless landlubber guests a toilet that requires a degree from MIT. Btw...whether you go with one Elegance or two, be sure to add the option "smart flush" panel...it'll save a lot of water.
Teeing the head intake line into the head sink drain line provides a choice of drawing flush water from TWO sources: pulling sea water in through the thru-hull...and pulling fresh water out of the sink. I suppose it COULD do both at the same time if you run water down the sink while pulling in sea water through the thru-hull, but it makes NO sense to do that.
The sole and only purpose of teeing the head intake line into the head sink drain line is to provide a safe source of clean fresh water to rinse the sea water out of the system before the boat will sit. To do that, close the seacock and fill the sink with clean fresh water. Flush the toilet. Because the seacock is closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the sink, rinsing all the sea water out of the entire system. And then, leave the seacock closed while you're away from the boat because open seacocks when no one is aboard result all too often in boats that sink in their slips.
Why do you want to rinse all the sea water out of the system? Because sea water is full of micro--and not so micro-organisms that, when left to sit and stagnate in the head intake line, pump and channel in the rim of the bowl, die, decay and STINK. Just pouring water into the bowl only rinses out the bottom of the pump and the toilet discharge line...it does not--at least it SHOULD not!--recirculate bowl contents through the intake line, pump and channel in the rim of the bowl. But when the toilet pulls in clean water via the intake line, the WHOLE system--intake, pump, channel AND the discharge are rinsed out.
If you find yourself in a really skanky harbor, you could just close the seacock and put water down the sink every time you flush the toilet...then go back to flushing with sea water after you've left.
Does everyone get it now? If not, I can keep trying...
However...going with the Elegance for both heads would eliminate the sea water odor problem altogether. Plus, it's a no brainer for guests to use. I've never quite understood why so many owners opt to put a wonderful "just push the button" toilet in the master head where the only people who'll use it actually know at least a LITTLE about how to use a marine toilet...and give their totally clueless landlubber guests a toilet that requires a degree from MIT. Btw...whether you go with one Elegance or two, be sure to add the option "smart flush" panel...it'll save a lot of water.
When in my slip and I swap the speed paddle wheel for the dummy plug, some water comes in. There are little living critters in that water(mud shrimp?). At the end of a sail I use to pump enough creek water to push the crap in the hoses into the holding tank. When doing so, that creek water- those critters- would be all through the system and then die and then rot and then stink.
When I first tee'd off the sink drain and pumped sink water through the head, I was surprised at how much "stuff" went into the bowl. But hey, when I did wet bowl with creek water, it was "cleaner"! What gives? With a shore hose blasting into the sink drain, I determined that there was some black buildup of unknown debris. I hosed out the drain until the water into the bowl ran clean. Nowdays, all is well.:dance:
The lightbulb is now on 
Peggy and all, appreciate all the input
Going to look at the budget and aim for 2 elegance heads + smart panels with all new hoses and poss a new holding tank if required
Peggy and all, appreciate all the input
Going to look at the budget and aim for 2 elegance heads + smart panels with all new hoses and poss a new holding tank if required
Something that would have helped a lot...
A strainer in the head intake line to catch all that "stuff" and keep it out of the toilet pump, bowl rim and hoses.
Teeing the head intake line into the sink drain line is a wonderful solution to raw intake water problems, but it's not do-able on all boats...notably those that have the sink and the toilet on opposite sides of the keel. It won't work if the sinks drain above the waterline either. A strainer won't do as good job of eliminating odor, but it does prevent the need to do what can be some very nasty cleaning jobs...like cleaning decomposed baby octopus parts out of a toilet pump.
A strainer in the head intake line to catch all that "stuff" and keep it out of the toilet pump, bowl rim and hoses.
Teeing the head intake line into the sink drain line is a wonderful solution to raw intake water problems, but it's not do-able on all boats...notably those that have the sink and the toilet on opposite sides of the keel. It won't work if the sinks drain above the waterline either. A strainer won't do as good job of eliminating odor, but it does prevent the need to do what can be some very nasty cleaning jobs...like cleaning decomposed baby octopus parts out of a toilet pump.
Peggy will ball me out for this , but we have kept the Jabsco toilet and only use fresh water. We keep a gallon container of fresh water and just empy a little in every time we use it. If we need more water for those #2 adventures, we use the shower hose, which works quite well.
Yes, our approach is low tech, but we have done this for the 8 years we have been in California and have lived on our boat 2/3rds of the time. The only downside is that when pooring fresh water into the bowl, the pump doesn't get lubricated as well as when drawing in water tbrough the intake of the pump. We usually replace the pump once every couple of years, but considering how often we use it, we don't mind. (Yes, Peggy would like us to purchase a more expensive toilet, but we haven't done it,LOL)
Most importantly, our head system smells less than any other boat we know. It just doesn't smell. Note: We don't use the forward head often, as its hose is an extremely long run to the holding tank.
, but we have kept the Jabsco toilet and only use fresh water. We keep a gallon container of fresh water and just empy a little in every time we use it. If we need more water for those #2 adventures, we use the shower hose, which works quite well.Yes, our approach is low tech, but we have done this for the 8 years we have been in California and have lived on our boat 2/3rds of the time. The only downside is that when pooring fresh water into the bowl, the pump doesn't get lubricated as well as when drawing in water tbrough the intake of the pump. We usually replace the pump once every couple of years, but considering how often we use it, we don't mind. (Yes, Peggy would like us to purchase a more expensive toilet, but we haven't done it,LOL)
Most importantly, our head system smells less than any other boat we know. It just doesn't smell. Note: We don't use the forward head often, as its hose is an extremely long run to the holding tank.
Yeah, BUT the tricks are these:
You USE the head all the time
You should (could, would) have tied the head sink drain into the inlet of the head
BUT, you don't need to, 'cuz you use it all the time.
Simple answer, since most folks only come down once a week, if that.
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5755.0.html
You USE the head all the time
You should (could, would) have tied the head sink drain into the inlet of the head
BUT, you don't need to, 'cuz you use it all the time.
Simple answer, since most folks only come down once a week, if that.
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5755.0.html
Hey...if you want to throw money away
If you want to spend more to keep replacing Jabsco pumps every couple of years than it would cost you to replace it just once with a toilet that would last for 20 years, it's ok with me...'cuz it's YOUR boat and YOUR money, not mine! :dance:
If you want to spend more to keep replacing Jabsco pumps every couple of years than it would cost you to replace it just once with a toilet that would last for 20 years, it's ok with me...'cuz it's YOUR boat and YOUR money, not mine! :dance:
Me too...
PS: no odor here either and that with raw water flush. All bets off if red tide, tho.
...and I'm so ashamed to show my avitar around herPeggy's right
PS: no odor here either and that with raw water flush. All bets off if red tide, tho.
Peggy or anyone with the knowledge
http://www.anchorexpress.com/Raritan-Marine-Elegance-Toilet-220HF012-p/220hf012.htm
Is that a decent deal and does it matter its not the current model? I called raritan and they confirmed it does indeed come with the smart flush control and the price doesn't seem too bad compared to others
Kind Regards
Redunc - sat in Iraq watching hurricane warnings with butt cheeks clenched
http://www.anchorexpress.com/Raritan-Marine-Elegance-Toilet-220HF012-p/220hf012.htm
Is that a decent deal and does it matter its not the current model? I called raritan and they confirmed it does indeed come with the smart flush control and the price doesn't seem too bad compared to others
Kind Regards
Redunc - sat in Iraq watching hurricane warnings with butt cheeks clenched
Check out this retailer...
http://www.boatersland.com/product.php?productid=10134 (Not to be confused with the now-defunct Boaters World)
Note that each line of the product description is a menu that lets you "build" your toilet...and it is the current version.
http://www.boatersland.com/product.php?productid=10134 (Not to be confused with the now-defunct Boaters World)
Note that each line of the product description is a menu that lets you "build" your toilet...and it is the current version.
Peggy
You are a ninja
Thankyou for the swift response
Now I need to work out if I require straight back or angled
Thank you again
You are a ninja
Thankyou for the swift response
Now I need to work out if I require straight back or angled
Thank you again
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