During the week of March 7, 2005, I will be in Alachua, Florida for a tour of the Hunter factory. My reasons for going are twofold. First I have my own personal interest in knowing how well my 1992 Hunter 37.5 was designed and built. Second I will be writing a feature article for the site with pictures sharing what I observed and learned. As fellow Hunter owners, I'm sure you have been exposed to prejudicial comments knocking the design and manufacturing quality of Hunter sailboats. The primary focus of my trip and my article will be to focus on my perceptions of the structural integrity and quality built into the design of the boats and into the manufacturing process. While not a marine engineer or a surveyor, I hope I can at least make some intelligent observations and ask some insightful questions. I expect to have access to some key people at Hunter who are involved in the design and manufacturing of our boats. My purpose in posting this now is to get your input. If you were going to Alachua, what would you like to ask Hunter about the design of our boats and about the manufacturing process? I can't promise that all questions will be asked and answered, but I'll do my best. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust H37.5
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Construction Evolution
As a fellow owner of a 37.5 (1993), I'd be interested in how Hunter's construction processes have changed/evolved over the past decade or two. It's easy to see the evolution of designs, but I wonder what and why changes have been made over the various generations (ex: 37-375-376-380) and what corrections/mods have been made along the way as a result (better/worse.) For example, it's clear that the 375 has more wood interior components that the later models. Was this change purely economic or were there other reasons? Which is better (i.e., safer, sturdier, eye appeal)?
As a fellow owner of a 37.5 (1993), I'd be interested in how Hunter's construction processes have changed/evolved over the past decade or two. It's easy to see the evolution of designs, but I wonder what and why changes have been made over the various generations (ex: 37-375-376-380) and what corrections/mods have been made along the way as a result (better/worse.) For example, it's clear that the 375 has more wood interior components that the later models. Was this change purely economic or were there other reasons? Which is better (i.e., safer, sturdier, eye appeal)?
12 Years Since Wanderlust Was Built
How has the building process changed in 12 years? Better quality is not an acceptable answer. What have they done? New approaches/techniques? What have they learned about boat building in the last 12 years? Other than listen to their customers. What do think is not done as well? What accounts for the random lemon? Markdb
How has the building process changed in 12 years? Better quality is not an acceptable answer. What have they done? New approaches/techniques? What have they learned about boat building in the last 12 years? Other than listen to their customers. What do think is not done as well? What accounts for the random lemon? Markdb
lots of things.
I think you will see that there are lots of items. 1. New Designer (Glenn Henderson) 2. New resins to help prevent blistering. 3. Kevlar reinforcement 4. CNC cut interiors for much higher quality (probably saves them a lot of money too). 5. Generally upgraded hardware and accessories. 6. Better designs (no more funky windows). 7. Lead Keels
I think you will see that there are lots of items. 1. New Designer (Glenn Henderson) 2. New resins to help prevent blistering. 3. Kevlar reinforcement 4. CNC cut interiors for much higher quality (probably saves them a lot of money too). 5. Generally upgraded hardware and accessories. 6. Better designs (no more funky windows). 7. Lead Keels
quality control
Suggest you grill them heavily about quality control procedues. My experience with a new Hunter is that they are extremely lax in this area. Separately talk to their QC manager and workers on the floor regarding procedures and how closely they are followed, and how often defects slip by.
Suggest you grill them heavily about quality control procedues. My experience with a new Hunter is that they are extremely lax in this area. Separately talk to their QC manager and workers on the floor regarding procedures and how closely they are followed, and how often defects slip by.
Post sale accessibility
Gary, Every time I catch a bug to do an upgrade or add another gizmo, I end up thinking bad thoughts about why Hunter made it so difficult for us owners to, for example, pull electrical lines. For me, it is virtually insurmountable to run cable from the helm to the electrical panel without undergoing a MAJOR project of removing floor boards and interior side panels to access wiring conduits. I would like to see the design better accommodate this. I, for one, can't wait for your article. Where will it be published? John Richard s/v Jack's Place
Gary, Every time I catch a bug to do an upgrade or add another gizmo, I end up thinking bad thoughts about why Hunter made it so difficult for us owners to, for example, pull electrical lines. For me, it is virtually insurmountable to run cable from the helm to the electrical panel without undergoing a MAJOR project of removing floor boards and interior side panels to access wiring conduits. I would like to see the design better accommodate this. I, for one, can't wait for your article. Where will it be published? John Richard s/v Jack's Place
Questions
Gary, Regarding the 356 you have some good input just today. 1. Leech flutter on furling mains (not an isolated issue). 2. Access to add or in fact to find problems. 3. Clearance to allow repacking stuffing box (apparently also not unique). I'll add a few more... 1. Problems with cracking fiberglass at strut chainplates. Heard this was system wide for at least a certain run of 356 boats, Fixed once on mine and now cracking again. And why was it so difficult to get the fix approved. 2. Consistent leaks at the hull to deck joint. This was at the rear of the 356 and took on water while under motoring (Stern squat). Same problem exists at edges of our 290. We are going to have to remove rub rail and tighten and seal joint. We noticed this recently tracking down a leak. Removed a few feet of rubrail and found bolts just finger tight. 3. Poor fit of settee covers on the 356. Just about everyone of them rubs the adjacent fiberglass when opening or closing. We have also done the factory tour. The first thing we noticed was workers applying fiberglass without wearing masks. Being from California and having experience with Cal Osha, we were kinda surprised (ok stunned). We were only in the factory for less than an hour but had enough dust on our shoes to require cleaning them off after (I'm talking airborne dust here). We assume at this point that the lack of quality control might be from too much ingestion of fiberglass dusk. Ok, that was a cheap shot. We think that Hunter could go a long way in improving quality control without a lot of effort. One good place to start would be to establish a presence here and a commitment to turn the information into useful customer support and internal training. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Gary, Regarding the 356 you have some good input just today. 1. Leech flutter on furling mains (not an isolated issue). 2. Access to add or in fact to find problems. 3. Clearance to allow repacking stuffing box (apparently also not unique). I'll add a few more... 1. Problems with cracking fiberglass at strut chainplates. Heard this was system wide for at least a certain run of 356 boats, Fixed once on mine and now cracking again. And why was it so difficult to get the fix approved. 2. Consistent leaks at the hull to deck joint. This was at the rear of the 356 and took on water while under motoring (Stern squat). Same problem exists at edges of our 290. We are going to have to remove rub rail and tighten and seal joint. We noticed this recently tracking down a leak. Removed a few feet of rubrail and found bolts just finger tight. 3. Poor fit of settee covers on the 356. Just about everyone of them rubs the adjacent fiberglass when opening or closing. We have also done the factory tour. The first thing we noticed was workers applying fiberglass without wearing masks. Being from California and having experience with Cal Osha, we were kinda surprised (ok stunned). We were only in the factory for less than an hour but had enough dust on our shoes to require cleaning them off after (I'm talking airborne dust here). We assume at this point that the lack of quality control might be from too much ingestion of fiberglass dusk. Ok, that was a cheap shot. We think that Hunter could go a long way in improving quality control without a lot of effort. One good place to start would be to establish a presence here and a commitment to turn the information into useful customer support and internal training. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Questions to Hunter
1. How come the 29.5 leaks badly at the rubrail, where the deck of the boat mates to the hull? Notwithstanding caulking the rubrail, shouldn't the runoff be sufficient not to leak between the seams? 2. When I recaulked to solve this problem, I left a one-inch gap at the base of the stern as an internal drain for God knows whatever water is still between the hulls. Should I have sealed it up? 3. Why not post some of the schematics of these designs so we can see how the boat was built? It hardly seems a secret, since Catalina has already stolen all your innovations.
1. How come the 29.5 leaks badly at the rubrail, where the deck of the boat mates to the hull? Notwithstanding caulking the rubrail, shouldn't the runoff be sufficient not to leak between the seams? 2. When I recaulked to solve this problem, I left a one-inch gap at the base of the stern as an internal drain for God knows whatever water is still between the hulls. Should I have sealed it up? 3. Why not post some of the schematics of these designs so we can see how the boat was built? It hardly seems a secret, since Catalina has already stolen all your innovations.
Rudders
As you know, Gary, there are sometimes questions about rudders on at least the larger boats. Specifically the 45/46 series. If they would be willing to share their research into those couple of losses that keep popping up, it would be helpful information, particularly to those people contemplating purchase or offshore sailing. Rick D.
As you know, Gary, there are sometimes questions about rudders on at least the larger boats. Specifically the 45/46 series. If they would be willing to share their research into those couple of losses that keep popping up, it would be helpful information, particularly to those people contemplating purchase or offshore sailing. Rick D.
Hunter tour questions
another issue that I think needs to be addressed by Hunter: they have been mostly responsive to my issues that are specific factory defects, but anything that the dealer did is "not our problem" the dealer is an independent business. That may be leagally true, but to the customer the dealer is Hunter. I use the Ford analogy-the dealers are independent, but if you have a dealer problem the ford zone rep will intercede and try to resolve the issue for the customer-they recognize that the dealer is Ford to the customer, and his failings reflect on them. It's actually worse than with cars, because if you hit a bad dealer you can probably buy the same car just down the street-changing Huunter dealers is a major issue-you can't just drive your boat to the next town.
another issue that I think needs to be addressed by Hunter: they have been mostly responsive to my issues that are specific factory defects, but anything that the dealer did is "not our problem" the dealer is an independent business. That may be leagally true, but to the customer the dealer is Hunter. I use the Ford analogy-the dealers are independent, but if you have a dealer problem the ford zone rep will intercede and try to resolve the issue for the customer-they recognize that the dealer is Ford to the customer, and his failings reflect on them. It's actually worse than with cars, because if you hit a bad dealer you can probably buy the same car just down the street-changing Huunter dealers is a major issue-you can't just drive your boat to the next town.
Hunter Plant Visit
Gary; Ask hunter why they didn't put a ball valve immediatly after the holding tank on the tank discharge line to the mascerator pump. A discharge line that just sits there full of waste, and which can't be emptied because of pollution regs, maked no sense at all. (2005 H-306). Also Hunter needs to check and update their system diagrams and operating instructions!!!
Gary; Ask hunter why they didn't put a ball valve immediatly after the holding tank on the tank discharge line to the mascerator pump. A discharge line that just sits there full of waste, and which can't be emptied because of pollution regs, maked no sense at all. (2005 H-306). Also Hunter needs to check and update their system diagrams and operating instructions!!!
Don;t Expect Much
From the Hunter personnel unless you make prior arrangements with their PR people for a detailed guided tour. First off - they will tell you no cameras no pictures. I made a visit to their plant in Sept while riding out the storm that tore up my house and boat in Pensacola. The activities on the production floor are quite noisy so it is hard to converse with anybody. I was not hindered by any workman in getting up close to a production area as there seem to be a long break in progress. If you are going to do an article on the plant and the production line I would suggest you do it over a two or three day perido. The first day is usually a rush as your tour guide will want to get back to work. A walk through on the first day will give you a good feel for the layout and the production flow. I was impressed with the wood working shop and the assembly of the inside of the cabin. Don't expect any answeres from the production floor - you will be hard pressed to find any sailors in the work force. Remember that the design and office staff has moved to St Augustine. This separation of production and design shows. It would be a good theme for your story I see where the other HL 35 owners have questions - but you will find that the production crew is working on 2005 boats - doubt if any of the 1988 production crew is still around. As I stated above - you best coordinate with the PR people as the no camera law is made quite clear. I guess Glen Henderson doesn't want anybody to steal his overhead main sheet track design. Ugh The one guy that I wanted to see but did not was the parts department. Seems to me it was way across the production floor - as I was leaving. Sail on RD
From the Hunter personnel unless you make prior arrangements with their PR people for a detailed guided tour. First off - they will tell you no cameras no pictures. I made a visit to their plant in Sept while riding out the storm that tore up my house and boat in Pensacola. The activities on the production floor are quite noisy so it is hard to converse with anybody. I was not hindered by any workman in getting up close to a production area as there seem to be a long break in progress. If you are going to do an article on the plant and the production line I would suggest you do it over a two or three day perido. The first day is usually a rush as your tour guide will want to get back to work. A walk through on the first day will give you a good feel for the layout and the production flow. I was impressed with the wood working shop and the assembly of the inside of the cabin. Don't expect any answeres from the production floor - you will be hard pressed to find any sailors in the work force. Remember that the design and office staff has moved to St Augustine. This separation of production and design shows. It would be a good theme for your story I see where the other HL 35 owners have questions - but you will find that the production crew is working on 2005 boats - doubt if any of the 1988 production crew is still around. As I stated above - you best coordinate with the PR people as the no camera law is made quite clear. I guess Glen Henderson doesn't want anybody to steal his overhead main sheet track design. Ugh The one guy that I wanted to see but did not was the parts department. Seems to me it was way across the production floor - as I was leaving. Sail on RD
Don't Expect Much
From the Hunter personnel unless you make prior arrangements with their PR people for a detailed guided tour. First off - they will tell you no cameras no pictures. I made a visit to their plant in Sept while riding out the storm that tore up my house and boat in Pensacola. The activities on the production floor are quite noisy so it is hard to converse with anybody. I was not hindered by any workman in getting up close to a production area as there seem to be a long break in progress. If you are going to do an article on the plant and the production line I would suggest you do it over a two or three day period. The first day is usually a rush as your tour guide will want to get back to work. A walk through on the first day will give you a good feel for the layout and the production flow. I was impressed with the wood working shop and the assembly of the inside of the cabin. Don't expect any answeres from the production floor - you will be hard pressed to find any sailors in the work force. Remember that the design and office staff has moved to St Augustine. This separation of production and design shows. It would be a good theme for your story I see where the other HL 35 owners have questions - but you will find that the production crew is working on 2005 boats - doubt if any of the 1988 production crew is still around. As I stated above - you best coordinate with the PR people as the no camera law is made quite clear. I guess Glen Henderson doesn't want anybody to steal his overhead main sheet track design. Ugh The one guy that I wanted to see but did not was the parts department. Seems to me it was way across the production floor - as I was leaving. Sail on RD
From the Hunter personnel unless you make prior arrangements with their PR people for a detailed guided tour. First off - they will tell you no cameras no pictures. I made a visit to their plant in Sept while riding out the storm that tore up my house and boat in Pensacola. The activities on the production floor are quite noisy so it is hard to converse with anybody. I was not hindered by any workman in getting up close to a production area as there seem to be a long break in progress. If you are going to do an article on the plant and the production line I would suggest you do it over a two or three day period. The first day is usually a rush as your tour guide will want to get back to work. A walk through on the first day will give you a good feel for the layout and the production flow. I was impressed with the wood working shop and the assembly of the inside of the cabin. Don't expect any answeres from the production floor - you will be hard pressed to find any sailors in the work force. Remember that the design and office staff has moved to St Augustine. This separation of production and design shows. It would be a good theme for your story I see where the other HL 35 owners have questions - but you will find that the production crew is working on 2005 boats - doubt if any of the 1988 production crew is still around. As I stated above - you best coordinate with the PR people as the no camera law is made quite clear. I guess Glen Henderson doesn't want anybody to steal his overhead main sheet track design. Ugh The one guy that I wanted to see but did not was the parts department. Seems to me it was way across the production floor - as I was leaving. Sail on RD
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