Unstepping Mast for Winter "on-Hard" Storage

[Barry7363]

While unstepping the mast when on the hard for "off-season" is optional at our club in Dartmouth Nova Scotia, probably 70% of the members do remove their masts. Having purchased 2 Catalinas in the Boston and Long Island areas, I noted that probably 80% of owners in those areas leave them in. The local (Nova Scotia) rationale for unstepping the mast is because of the high winds we can get a number of times over the winter months, and the desire to minimize vibration loading on the chainplates. For the C-34, I have a substantial cradle with bunks rather than the pads I had on our C-30's cradle (which had a tendency to loosen with the wind-induced movement over the winter). I am considering leaving the mast in next year, but have concerns that I may end up paying the "chain-plate-piper" if I do. It would be interesting to know if there is any documented information that addresses the question of accelerated deterioration or loosening of chainplates, etc. I recognize that many owners are in the enviable position that they only go on the hard for a couple of weeks every so many years for routine maintenance, but would also note that wind loading on masts in the water will be quite different than those on a rigid cradle. I would appreciate any feedback from the C-34 membership regarding their experiences.

Best Regards,

Barry White
Eastern Passage, Nova Scotia
1986 C-34
Sail No. 098
"Endorfin"

 

[tommays]

Around here you have to sign a yard waiver If you leave it up ,and many do leave it up

BUT having been down there when its blowing 50 and seeing it beat the crap out of the jackstands ?

 

[Tim R.]

Also, don't forget the water that gets inside your lower swages and freezes. You will be shortening the life of your standing rigging by leaving it up and exposed.

 

[Barry7363]

Hi Tim, a good point, the potential for water penetrating and freezing within swages is another logical, probable exposure problem... but, I wonder (given the lack of specific reports of problems with this, and the high % of owners who unstep every 4 to 6 years), whether there is much water that actually penetrates with enough volume to make expansion on freezing a problem. (I am obviously looking for 'scientific' justification to not remove the "stick" every season).

 

[Ross]

here in Maryland we get more freeze thaw cycles than you get in more northern climates but I would guess that 95 per cent of the boats are stored with their mast up. My friends who are riggers don't mention failed swages. I should think that crevice corrosion would be a greater concern than freezing.

 

[Tim R.]

According to my rigger lower swages are the most likely point of failure for swaged shroud or stay. How can you tell what caused them to fail? The ones I have seen were either a cracked swage or the wire failed down inside the swage from crevice corrosion. Does ice contribute to corrosion? What caused the crack?

 

[kenn]

In Toronto, at our yacht club, I believe all our boats have their masts removed before storage. It might be due to the fact that we rent cranes for the haulout, we don't have a travelift.

In any case, it's certainly easier to do maintenance on the mast when it's down...

 

[Maine Sail]

Hi Tim, a good point, the potential for water penetrating and freezing within swages is another logical, probable exposure problem... but, I wonder (given the lack of specific reports of problems with this, and the high % of owners who unstep every 4 to 6 years), whether there is much water that actually penetrates with enough volume to make expansion on freezing a problem. (I am obviously looking for 'scientific' justification to not remove the "stick" every season).

How about this..

For me the question is not an easy one.

I am a firm believer that you can do more harm and increase the risk of damage, and increase the rate of physical damage to the spar by un-stepping it each year. That said I un-step the spar on our current boat each winter.

There are then the problems associated with leaving it in. With a keel stepped spar you will have a high risk of ice expanding and freezing in a bilge and expansion and damage to lower swages. I have seen ice in a bilge separate a floor from a stringer. Having water in the bilge all winter long, as you would with a keel stepped spar, adds nothing good and can only cause more harm than good. You also run a significantly higher risk of your boat toppling over in a wind storm if your boat yard is not well protected. I've seen it happen at few yards around here.

So for me, if I had a deck stepped spar, I would use mechanical rigging fittings on the bottom and leave it up for two years and take it down on the third and so on.

With a keel step I still remove it despite the risk of damage by handling. I don't like water in my bilge and with a keel stepped spar that risk is almost always guaranteed.

If you want to leave it up, and it is keel stepped, add some 100 below non-tox antifreeze to the bilge. You will need to pump out and refresh it as it fills with water and dilutes and raises the freeze point.

You may also want to run messengers or dummy halyards up the spar to keep them out of the elements. I think with leaving up in freezing conditions you would be best served with mechanical fittings on the bottom. Most any rigger will tell you the ratio they see of failed bottom swages when compared to top swages. That ratio according to my rigger is about 50:1 according. This is why he still swages uppers and uses mechanical fittings on the bottoms.

I pay more to un-step but feel better about it despite the potential damage I may see to my spar from handling. Anther concern is that your boat is very, very tough to seal from the elements with the rig in place.

More than anything this is a personal choice that will need to be weighed with your wallet and piece of mind. I don't think there is a blanket right answer..

 

[sailingdog]

Another reason the bottom swages are far more likely to fail is that they are often exposed to salt water far more often than the top swages... when was the last time you got the top swages wet with salt spray from green water passing over the cabin top???

 

[Maine Sail]

Another reason the bottom swages are far more likely to fail is that they are often exposed to salt water far more often than the top swages... when was the last time you got the top swages wet with salt spray from green water passing over the cabin top???

Yep salt, ice and GRAVITY are probably the biggest reasons why lower swages tend to fail at such a high rate. Uppers drain naturally, and lowers collect naturally..

 

[Bob S]

If you unstep your mast and it is store outside, what precautions should you take? I remove my mast every year to transport it 30 miles inland. It's stored on four saw horses. I wrap an old tarp around the end to keep critters out but feel it traps water that can freeze. I remove the raydome but the rest is exposed to the elements.

 

[higgs]

I have stored in two locales - Wisconsin in Southern L. Mich. and now the south shore of
L Ontario. At both locales many store boats with mast up. I have yet to see any problems associated with the mast up option. This observation covers at least 20 years.

 

[ronbo]

My guess is yards make more money on unstepping/stepping masts. Here in the Chesapeake winds and the freeze cycle are as great as further north but all boats here keep their masts up with no ill effects.

Ronbo

 

[Scott B]

In Toronto, at our yacht club, I believe all our boats have their masts removed before storage. It might be due to the fact that we rent cranes for the haulout, we don't have a travelift.

In any case, it's certainly easier to do maintenance on the mast when it's down...

Most clubs in the Toronto region do not have a Travel lift and use a crane for lift out, thus all the masts come down. In our area most marinas have a travel lift. The only club that unsteps the mast is the Midland sailing club that uses a crane.

Salt, isn't that what you use for tequila, why would you put it on your boat?????

 

[Tim R.]

I store my mast indoors all winter. Heated space where I can work on it.

The ill effects, aside from toppling, of leaving a mast up all winter will not be realized until that boat is on the water and has a failure.

 

[Barry7363]

Gentlemen, thank you for your feedback. I believe the pros and cons have been well covered. I am in a quandry as there are obviously "exposures" to damage in either scenario. It becomes a matter of individual "comfort" with either option and with the knowledge brought forward in these discussions that enable us to mitigate the risks whichever choice we make. Again, thank you all.
P.S. I am interested in the concept of mechanical fittings for the deck level fittings, with swaged fitting aloft. What kind of "mechanical fittings" are we talking about?

Cheers,

Barry

 

[Maine Sail]

P.S. I am interested in the concept of mechanical fittings for the deck level fittings, with swaged fitting aloft. What kind of "mechanical fittings" are we talking about?

Cheers,

Barry

Sta-Lok, Norseman or Hayn Hi-MODS. All are mechanical swageless fittings..