Universal M25 Engine parts

[About Time2]

Hello all,
This is my 3rd season with my boat. I have a 1986 Catalina 30 with a Universal M25 engine that I just had the boat yard pull out for me to go through and clean up, recondition the engine (not a complete re-build) The engine is now almost 30 years old and is in need of a good going over. It did have some points that were leaking from the oil pan gaskets and a couple other locations. I did get a reasonable price from my boatyard to do the work. However I just received a call that one of the oil leaking points is coming from the timing chain cover located in the very front of the engine. The cover itself is in such bad condition that you can almost put your finger through the cover in certain places. I guess I should be happy that it was discovered now.
The boatyard checked with Westebeke / Universal the cost of the replacement cover is astronomical.
Does anyone have or know of any places that have replacement parts, new or used that I could locate a replacement timing cover?
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thank You,
Tim Hennessey
About Time 2

 

[Stu Jackson]

Tim, those covers are almost impossible to find. One of the reasons is that many skippers were unaware of the alternator bracket mount issue and their old style brackets failed catastrophically, whacking the gear cover and usually taking out the oil filter. A friend of mine was quoted $700 for one two years ago.

The only way I know of to find one is to prepare to spend a lot of YOUR time searching for one, like somebody parting out an M25 engine. If anyone is doing so, and if they know of this issue, the cost will be quite dear. If they don't know, you might get lucky.

If I had to do it, I'd use an internet search engine and lots of Craigslist.

Good luck.

***************************************************************************************************

Engines 101 - The BIGGEST & BEST collection of M25 Series Universal Engine Information on the Internet, plus some M35, too

http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Diesel_Engine

http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=M-25_Alternator_Mount_Conversion_Kit_"B/M_256891"

Universal M-25 & M25XP Alternator Bracket Upgrade & Alignment 101 IMPORTANT

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7917.0.html

 

[About Time2]

Stu,
Thank you for the advice and quick reply.
Do you know if the Kubota D850 engine parts would work for the Universal M25?
I did go to the attachments you suggested above and will be trying all avenues and searches to find this part.
If not, I may have to find a rebuilt engine. I hope not.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Tim, IIRC the D850 IS the M25, so sure. The M25XP is the D950 block; the engines are so similar, it could work, but I don't know for sure; I'd go to www.marinedieseldirect.com and check the part #s between the two engines; if they are the same, then you have doubled your chances. There are Kubota block and tractor engine equivalents in that Engine link. There is a Kubota tractor store a mile or two away from where I'm staying with my father-in-law here on Vancouver Island this week; I'm leaving on Wednesday. I'd be glad to drop in there after Boxing Day and see if they have anything; let me know if you want me to try it for you. I've heard of folks trying to rebuild their covers, which IIRC are aluminum, after they got whacked by the alternator; JB Weld seemed to be a popular attempt material; don't know how far gone yours is.

 

[About Time2]

Stu,
Thank you so much for the offer to check a local Kubota dealer. I can't believe your generous offer, it is very much appreciated. If you could, I would accept your offer for sure. I'm on my last straw. I have spent almost all day checking sites. But it being the holiday, I will have had no luck so far.
According to the boat yard, the cover is made of aluminum and due to the salt, dirt and oils sitting on there it has made the cover almost porous in some places. So I don't think a filler job would work.
I will be going to the boat yard on Saturday to check out the situation myself and take some pictures.
I hope you have a happy holiday!
Sincerely
Tim Hennessey

 

[Stu Jackson]

I sent you a pm.

 

[Mark Maulden]

Lookup Scholtens Equipment in Burlington Wa. Were in the middle farm country so they might be able to help with a used one if the Kubota is acceptable.

 

[Capt jgw]

Universal used as much of the original Kubota engine as they could. On most of them the only parts they custom made were the exhaust manifolds, so the Kubota timing cover should work if they're still available. Don't know if they still make the D850. A lot of "marine" mechanics won't source parts that way as they make a percentage on the cost, so you may have to source it yourself. Your local Kubota dealer should be able to help. Same thing with any other parts except the exhaust manifold and raw water pump. If you need a marine exhaust manifold you're screwed. It's either pay Westerbeke's highway robbery prices if they're even available, or have it custom made. The pump is available from Depco or Moyer Marine a lot cheaper than Westerbeke.
If the Kubota shop has the cover, I'd walk the old one in to compare and make sure it will work.
I needed new injector nozzles for my Universal 5411, they were $400 from Westerbeke, $72 each from Kubota. I found them on eBay for $40 each, brand new. Same exact parts.

 

[Capt jgw]

Tell the Kubota shop it's for a B1550 tractor. They don't know anything about Universal and they can't search be engine number. Only by tractor number.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Thanks, jgw, saves me looking it up.

 

[Maine Sail]

Good luck finding a timing gear cover for an M-25 the last one I needed to do, the customer wound up buying an entire spare engine just to get the timing gear cover. Due to a piss-poor alternator bracket design Westerbeke/Universal burned through just about every timing gear case they could get their hands on and they are no longer available, other than finding one by luck........

 

[Harleyreef]

Was wondering if aluminum welding could fill in the worn spots then machined back to specs? We had that done once to some crane parts that were obsolete. Might not be cost effective but could help if the cover is no longer available.

 

[About Time2]

Thank you all for your support and suggestions.
I am trying all the avenues suggested. However, I think this is going to be a long process of searching and hoping to find something that will work. I will update everyone when I can on how my problem / solution works out.
I guess no good deed goes unpunished and I opened a complete can of worms with this one.
Tim H.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Tim, I sent you another pm.

 

[CaptKathy]

Ahoy Tim of About Time2,
My Catalina 36, with M-25 Universal engine, has the same problem with the gear case cover. No one makes the part anymore, and our local diesel mechanic says he replaced one on another Catalina but is not confident that it will permanently stop the oil from leaking out. He is suggesting we buy a used tractor motor (D-850 Kubota is the same, but not marine ready) and refit. ... Have you had any success? Or anyone else?

 

[Harleyreef]

Hi CaptKathy, if and when I have a problem with my cover, first place I will check is a machine shop specializing in aluminum welding. I would have them fill in the weak spots and machine back to specs. We have done this numerous times with crane parts, both steel and aluminum, due to the manufacturer going out of business. For the most part, it ends up being quite inexpensive. I would think it is worth a try.

 

[CaptKathy]

Thanks, Andrew.
Our mechanic has another Catalina with the exact same problem. With the other Catalina, the thin-cast aluminum replacement cover warped when he tried to put it back on. So he took it to a machinist who fixed it, but the oil still leaked through when it was re-attached. He added some kind of sealer to seal it all up, but he's not confident it won't spring a leak anytime soon. The problem seems to be welding this thin-cast aluminum part onto the engine, which is another metal, and having a confidence level that it won't leak.

Looking for anyone who has had success with this repair without buying a whole new engine!

 

[Donnybrook]

The Universal M-18 (Kubota Z600) uses the same gear case cover as the M25. Might help in your search.