universal m18 alternator bracket upgrade

[adamv]

My M18 alternator tends to clock around, fouling the port teak. I tried tightening but it always returns to a looser position against the teak. I then saw about the timing case ear failures on M25s. Has anyone experienced or heard of failures on M18s? Have many M18 owners gone ahead and done the upgrade? Its time consuming and expensive but wondering if its worth biting the bullet? Seems it could solve my tension issue as well as protect against future problems
Thanks in advance!

 

[kappykaplan]

To "steal" something @Stu Jackson frequently posts:

You can learn a lot about your engine on the TOAD website and here:
Engines 101 - The BIGGEST & BEST collection of M25 Series Universal Engine Information on the Internet, plus some M35, too This includes a link to the Critical Upgrades topic which has more engine information please read it too.

Diesel Engine - c34.org

 

[adamv]

thanks, I did stumble across both - most of the problems seem to relate to the larger engine sizes (even though the components and attachments are similar) I was curious if there were any problems related to m18 specifically. It seems the upgraded bracket is a $1k job and will give me piece of mind and an alternator that maintains its tension. At the same time a 50 cents locking nut may also maintain tension!

 

[Richard19068]

The casing on my M18 developed a small crack due to the alternator attachment. I was lucky to notice a small oil drip before it became un-repairable.

I did the bracket upgrade myself. Not "easy" but it shouldn't be $1,000.

Universal M-18 /M-25 alternator bracket upgrade

I have a Universal M-18. In looking for a small oil leak I found a hairline crack under the alternator bracket ear on the timing gear case. I am ordering the bracket upgrade now (better late than never :redface:?). Fortunately it hasn’t done any damage other than the small crack. I won’t be...

forums.sailboatowners.com

ps: what do you mean by "clock around"?

 

[adamv]

The casing on my M18 developed a small crack due to the alternator attachment. I was lucky to notice a small oil drip before it became un-repairable.
I did the bracket upgrade myself. Not "easy" but it shouldn't be $1,000.

Thanks this is good to know - ive ordered the kit!
I'm in Canada so its $829 from TOAD and I'm sure there's duty / tax to pay :-/ insane for something that can be made in a few mins for pennies with the right tools

ps: what do you mean by "clock around"?

The bolt is as tight as i could make it with my wrench and sprocket set but still tends to rotate around clockwise leaving the belt slighting slacker than it should be. I even made the mistake of cutting a sliver of the teak out hoping that would buy me more space to add a little more tension but it turns out it simply allowed the bracket to rotate clockwise around a little more leaving it looser than it was before.

 

[Stu Jackson]

even though the components and attachments are similar) I was curious if there were any problems related to m18 specifically. It seems the upgraded bracket is a $1k job

I do not know about M18 specifics but the larger question you have to ask yourself is: "Is my bracket on my engine just like the old ones on the M25 engine that have failed?" Without a photo of your engine, I can't tell. But in reading the info I've posted, you should have learned that the reason the old brackets failed was because of how they were made. They fail without warning. What's your engine worth to you?

I wrote this in 1999: M-25 Alternator Mount Conversion Kit "B/M 256891" - c34.org

$1K job? Where? The kit is a few hundred dollars by now and is an afternoons work.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I then saw about the timing case ear failures on M25s. Has anyone experienced or heard of failures on M18s?

I just Googled Universal M18 alternator bracket failure and found this:

Universal M-18 & M-25 Alternator Bracket Upgrade by Compass Marine How To

www.pbase.com

WADR, didn't you bother to do ANY research?

 

[Stu Jackson]

I'm in Canada so its $829 from TOAD

Have you tried comparison shopping? Catalina Direct less than $600: Universal Diesel Alternator Bracket Retrofit

I'm in Canada, too. Please don't play games with currency conversion when doing pricing if that's what you've done, and if you do, please note it. There are skippers who may be reading this who would be discouraged from making a NECESSARY preventative repair only because of cost, in your case possibly inflated if only dealing with US funds. And if you didn't comparison shop, don't complain about the pricing from only one source. kappy's link to my earlier reference source provided a link to the CD source for these brackets, too bad you missed it.


Again: what's your entire engine worth to you?

 

[adamv]

I just Googled Universal M18 alternator bracket failure and found this:

Universal M-18 & M-25 Alternator Bracket Upgrade by Compass Marine How To

www.pbase.com

WADR, didn't you bother to do ANY research?

Yes, Stu reading this very page is where i got concerned about failures! From further research I'd read everyone reporting problems had M25 - I'd not seen anyone with failures on M18. Thats why i specifically asked M18 owners. Just one reporting a crack is enough to make me think its a worth while

 

[adamv]

Have you tried comparison shopping? Catalina Direct less than $600: Universal Diesel Alternator Bracket Retrofit

Yes, I actually ordered it from TOAD - US$577 + $27 shipping = CAD $829. $577 was the cheapest/ only price i could find.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I'd not seen anyone with failures on M18.

But MAINE SAIL, THE most respected boat system person in the entire universe, said it applied to M18 engines, too. AND he linked to a Universal Service Bulletin which included your M18!!!

What more did you need to know?

 

[odaydokay]

I don't know if this helps but for the first years on my M-12 I tightened the adjuster bracket each spring and ny not long it was loose again. So I tried an experiment....just leave it and see if i still good juice out of the alternator, i.e. 13.7 V charge or whatever it is supposed to be. That was about a decade ago and I never looked back. The belt is supposed to sag about 1" I think is the spec. It sags maybe 2" but never changes for the worst. Of course I have a spare belt ready to go in case. All of the above is for a difference engine I know, so YMMV of course.

 

[adamv]

But MAINE SAIL, THE most respected boat system person in the entire universe, said it applied to M18 engines, too. AND he linked to a Universal Service Bulletin which included your M18!!!

What more did you need to know?

Ha yeah and to think i asked a sensible question, got a sensible answer and then followed the sensible advice! What a rebel i am!!

 

[jviss]

Those slotted adjusting arms can be frustrating. I finally got a turnbuckle with ball rod ends (?) on it, and made spacers on the lathe to fit the bolts properly.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Ha yeah and to think i asked a sensible question, got a sensible answer and then followed the sensible advice! What a rebel i am!!

I am very glad that you found the answer.

Please forgive me for my perceived impatience with your situation. I have been "dealing with this issue" for the past 25 years since I wrote that article. I have encountered many people who weren't aware of it in spite of repeated warnings. I am glad you finally "got the memo."
Here's an example of why I sometimes get short tempered about this issue:

Universal M-25 & M25XP Alternator Bracket Upgrade & Alignment

Universal M-25 & M25XP Alternator Bracket Upgrade & Alignment

c34.org

 

[adamv]

I am very glad that you found the answer.

Thanks Stu, much appreciated - my 38 year old boat has been in my hands for just 3 months and as I'm sure with anyone, the first task is to list all the 'need to' tasks before I get onto the 'want to' upgrades that its tempting to jump straight into. The engine is the biggest concern of course and while its a pity the previous owners didn't address critical issues, its ironically comforting to find and eventually solve them!

 

[Stu Jackson]

The engine is the biggest concern of course and while its a pity the previous owners didn't address critical issues, its ironically comforting to find and eventually solve them!

Adam,

Thank you and understood. Your Newport and many of our Catalinas have similar if not identical systems, equipment and "issues."
I URGE you in the most helpful of tone to carefully examine the links provided, especially, for starts, the Critical Upgrades. They are a very good starting point for a new to you older boat. Mine was already 12 years old when we bought her, and I've learned a lot, contributed a bit, and worked hard to "save" a lot of pertinent information on our C34 website. Most of it is not boat specific and helpful to many.

Critical Upgrades http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.0.html

 

[Richard19068]

I'm in Canada so its $829 from TOAD and I'm sure there's duty / tax to pay :-/ insane for something that can be made in a few mins for pennies with the right tools

That price for this thing (even when converted back to the US dollar price) is totally nuts! Especially since many of the items included in the "kit" will not be useful. It is expensive insurance but you have to consider what would happen if a piece of the gear case broke off.

The bolt is as tight as i could make it with my wrench and sprocket set but still tends to rotate around clockwise leaving the belt slighting slacker than it should be. I even made the mistake of cutting a sliver of the teak out hoping that would buy me more space to add a little more tension but it turns out it simply allowed the bracket to rotate clockwise around a little more leaving it looser than it was before.

What rotates around clockwise? The bolt or the alternator or the bracket?
I don't quite understanding this "...but it turns out it simply allowed the bracket to rotate clockwise around a little more leaving it looser than it was before".
It sounds like you are saying when you rotate the alternator out on the bracket to tighten the belt the alternator goes so far it starts coming back toward the engine and thus loosening the belt?
If that's the case maybe your belt is too long?

 

[adamv]

So the kit arrived. With an addtitional CAD$99 import duty and $40 for the gaskets, I'm well over $1k down. I was prepared for it after reading other pages, but the optimisit in me clung to that surely something that costs around the same as a small outboard would include the right bolts,.. and low and behold, it doesnt! I feel like i've been mugged in the street four times by universal/Westerbeke. Once for making poor quality components, secondly by not recalling, thirdly by me paying CAD$1k for a bracket i could make in a few mins in a workshop for a few cents, and finally by them not even bothering to include the right $0.50 bolts.
I'm so tempted to tear the noisey/smelly/expensive thing out and replace it with a nice clean electric motor! Rant over

 

[adamv]

It sounds like you are saying when you rotate the alternator out on the bracket to tighten the belt the alternator goes so far it starts coming back toward the engine and thus loosening the belt?
If that's the case maybe your belt is too long?

Its more that the pivot bolt cant be tightened any more but still allows clockwise movement. In moving clockwise, the system slackens. I would have assumed a system that tightens with the natural forces of rotation and therefor adds tension, would be better, such as you have on the bolts on car wheels.