Universal M-25 in a Catalina 30?

[rross1776]

Greetings!

The prvious owner of my 1982 Catalina 30 killed the Universal 5411 that was in her. Is a Universal M-25 a suitable replacement? Will it fine in the engine compartment?

Any thoughts and suggestions are appreciated. I need a new engine and I am lost!

Thanks,
Rob

 

[Stu Jackson]

Yes, the M25 was used in hundreds of C30s. If you need M25 engine info, we have lots, here: http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Diesel_Engine

 

[rross1776]

Thanks for the info! My concern is the size. will it fit in the 1982 Catalin 30 engine compartment?

I never thought my first sailing crisis would be an engine.

Thanks again for the help.
Rob

 

[Stu Jackson]

I don't know if Catalina changed the stringers for the different engines. A picture of what you have now would help us to help you. You could also try www.marinedieseldirect.com and find the dimensions of the M25. If you can't find it there, then the M25XP is essentially the same engine (2 more HP, same 3 cylinders, bigger 3 inch HX standard (many of us have upgraded our HXs on our M25s) and a better alternator bracket). If you get an M25, you MUST make sure you get the newer alternator bracket.

 

[Bob4203]

Catalina switched from the Universal 11 to the Universal M-18 in the late 1987 early 88 Mark II models with offering the Universal M-25 as an option. In late 1988 going forward the M-25 was the standard engine for the 30. You could go with a less expensive M-18 (16 hp, 2-cylinder); however, it depends as well just where your sailing area is. Have lots of strong currents and tides? The M-25 is preferred for more power and performance. I am certain the M-25 will fit in the compartment as many tossed out the old Atomic Fours and the M-11's and went with the M-25. A call to the Catlaina factory will get you a quick answer on fit.

By the way, my buddy had the Universal 11 in his '82 Catalina 30 and it never received great reviews when it came to plowing through strong currents. Under power she was slow. Catalina had to upgrade!

Bob
'88 Mark II

 

[rross1776]

Thanks for the info guys! I wish I would have put the question out there a long time ago. It would have saved a lot of trouble. That's what I get for bing my own worst enemy. I will keep ya'll posted!

Tahnks again,
Rob

 

[Don Guillette]

My 1980 C30 has the 25XP replacement, which was one of the reason I bought the boat, and it dropped in with no apparent modifications. A 9 or 10 HP OB is great for a C25, which weighs about 4500 lbs, but the 11HP 5411 was inadequate for a 12,000 C30. That's why Catalina replace them as a good idea (installing a diesel to replace the Atomic 4), which just didn't work.

There are a lot of C30 with Atomic engines out there which a lot of buyers shy away form because diesel is safer but gas engines have been around for many years and worked fine. A mate can almost steal a C30 with a Atomic 4 and I'd have no problem buying one -- just my opinion.

 

[jrowan]

I too have the 5411. Mine was rebuilt so there was no valid reason for tearing out a good running, albeit a lil' underpowered engine. BTW the C 30 is listed at 10,500 lbs, from the factory, not 12,000 lbs. Although by the time I add up all of the stuff mine is loaded up with she is easily approaching 12k in weight, but that is my choice not the weight the boat comes with, empty.

 

[SailorRob]

I replaced my5411 with a M25XPB two years ago. I had to build a box because it came out into the compartment a few inches.

 

[Don Guillette]

Jrowan: Who sails a boat empty? I'm not sure what your point is concerning the factory weight verse the actual weight when you start including passengers and the rest of the junk folks add to their boats. 12,000 is a realistic number, as you indicated, that the 5411 engine must deal with and it's an under powered engine even if you just deal with the factory weight. It's underpowered if the factory weight weight was 8000 lbs and the loaded weight was 10,000 lbs. That's why Catalina, after receiving numerous customer complaints, stopped installing them. It's the same with a motor home. No one cares what the weight out the factory door is. It's what the engine has to push when you add passengers and all the creature comforts plus gas, water etc.

The 5411 might work well in some situation where wind, current etc is not a factor. I wouldn't want to cross the Columbia River Bar with a 5411

 

[foolproof]

You guys are lucky! I have an 11 hp Yanmar, but I'm on an inland lake. I have gotten used to being one of the slower boats on the lake when I'm motoring. Kind of wish I had more power,.but at least it is reliable.

 

[Don Guillette]

foolproof: The engine you have is perfectly suited to your situation -- you're not at the Indy 500. You probably arrive at the dock about 5 - 10 minutes after the rest of the folks, which is no big deal.

 

[jrowan]

Don, My point is being accurate. The list weight of the C 30 empty is actually supposed to be 10,200 lbs. I freely admit that most of us easily pack on another 1 to 2k of weight, but don't incorrectly list that boat as being 1,800 lbs. heavier then it really is, as people assume that weight is added to that number which it isn't. I also think its interesting that Ross here is asking for an engine to replace the 5411, which has lasted up till now for 32 years! That's a pretty reliable & venerable engine in anyone's book. I still have the much maligned 5411 as well, albeit on her 2nd rebuild. While obviously a bit underpowered when in a stiff chop, I have found the 5411 to be extremely reliable & much simpler to maintain then the Universal 25 or any Yanmar I've previously owned. The heat exchangers on the 25's which the 5411 doesn't even bother with, are a PIA to maintain when they get older & full of salt corrosion. My 5411 only uses about 1/4 of diesel per hour at 3/4 throttle. It takes me a year to burn a tank, running her all the time. I have never owned a engine that started faster or ran smoother then the lil 5411.
That being said, of course everyone thinks bigger is better. Mine was built in an era when a diesel auxillary was made to get you in & out of the marina. Today sailors have gotten kinda lazy in my opinion & just want to motor everywhere. It is a SAIL boat after all. The 5411 reminds me of that, & I probably sail more & motor less, & am happier for it.

Perhaps it would be nice to get another knot of peed under power, but I usually can get 5.5 knots out of her under normal tide & wave conditions. This is about what I would expect from most engins in a C 30. Perhaps even faster when the bottom & prop are really clean. Once you hit hull speed at 6.4 knots it doesn't matter if you have 11 horses or 1,100, your not going any faster, just burning up more fuel. But if it makes you feel more secure then go for the big block. As for my 5411, if she concked out I would rebuild her again, & she would run for another 10 + years or more rock steady. No worries.