I'm starting to plan for my spring time projects for my Venture 21 and am thinking of two. 1)I'd like to set up a jiffy reef system and may have some of the components mounted on the boom already: On the starboard side of the boom I have a padeye aft and a cleat forward On the port side I have a cheek block aft with a cleat forward of that which I currently use as the outhaul. I also have a cheek block forward. Does anyone have any reef set ups that may be compatable with my current hardware arrangement, or recomendations for setting up a reef system? I sail on Tahoe which is prone to sudden gusts so a fast reefing system would be beneficial. 2)I'm thinking of wiring the boat which doesn't have any pre-existing wiring or power. Any recomendations for good resources or websites that could be handy. My electrical experience is very limited. Thank all Bryan
Two Questions
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Some Wiring references
Here’s a start on electrical wiring. Ohm’s Law & Boats: http://cruisersforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=372 Blue Seas Technical Library: http://www.bluesea.com/sections.asp Including ~ Excerpts from ABYC: http://www.bluesea.com/Article_detail.asp?Section_ID=139&id=119 Don’t hesitate in posting specific queries... Good luck, Gord
Here’s a start on electrical wiring. Ohm’s Law & Boats: http://cruisersforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=372 Blue Seas Technical Library: http://www.bluesea.com/sections.asp Including ~ Excerpts from ABYC: http://www.bluesea.com/Article_detail.asp?Section_ID=139&id=119 Don’t hesitate in posting specific queries... Good luck, Gord
Jiffy Reefing
I set up jiffy reefing on my previous boat, a Mac 26D. For each reef point you need a cheek block directly below the reef cringle in the clew and a cleat forward of that block. I use a clam cleat and a horn cleat - while tensioning the line in high winds I can cleat it in the clam cleat as I haul in the line and when it's pulled in all the way, I make the line fast on the horn cleat. There needs to be a padeye to attach the other end of the reef line. You might go to www.sailnet.com and visit the MacGregor forum archives and search under jiffy reefing. There are many good articles and diagrams there.
I set up jiffy reefing on my previous boat, a Mac 26D. For each reef point you need a cheek block directly below the reef cringle in the clew and a cleat forward of that block. I use a clam cleat and a horn cleat - while tensioning the line in high winds I can cleat it in the clam cleat as I haul in the line and when it's pulled in all the way, I make the line fast on the horn cleat. There needs to be a padeye to attach the other end of the reef line. You might go to www.sailnet.com and visit the MacGregor forum archives and search under jiffy reefing. There are many good articles and diagrams there.
another good reference
Marinco Shore Power Products - A Boater's Guide To AC Electrical Systems http://www.marinco2.com/pdf_files/Boaters_Guide_AC_Electric.pdf and Excerpts from ABYC “Standards & Recommended Practices for Small Craft ~ 2000” [Since Revised] Cruisers Forum: http://cruisersforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1471
Marinco Shore Power Products - A Boater's Guide To AC Electrical Systems http://www.marinco2.com/pdf_files/Boaters_Guide_AC_Electric.pdf and Excerpts from ABYC “Standards & Recommended Practices for Small Craft ~ 2000” [Since Revised] Cruisers Forum: http://cruisersforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1471
Electrical Info
In addition to the wiring, you'll need to know about batteries and charging. www.amplepower.com download and read the Ample Power Primer For energy use, www.jackrabbitmarine.com is helpful. Stu
In addition to the wiring, you'll need to know about batteries and charging. www.amplepower.com download and read the Ample Power Primer For energy use, www.jackrabbitmarine.com is helpful. Stu
2 liner
Bryan, you have a two line jiffy reefing system. All you need to do is add two lines. Here is how to do it. I used 3/16 braid, but you could go up to 1/4" if you felt the need. Tie a line off on the aft starboard padeye, run it up to and through the grommet at the reefing point on the leech of your sail, (if you have one) and back down to the cheek block and forward to the first cleat on the port side. Give yourself an extra 18 inches of line for purchase and cut the line at that point. Now for the forward reefing line: Tie the line to the padeye on the starboard side, run it up to and through the grommet at the reef point in the luff of the sail and down to the cleat on the port side. I have a single line reefing system. The only difference is that I don't have a cleat port aft, and I have an additional cheek block port forward and a cleat starboard forward. A single line does the whole trick, but there is a lot more line involved, and I think two lines are easier to manage. If your sail does not have reef points, get your sailmaker to put some in. I think it cost me under a $100 for a single set. If I were doing it again, I would put in a second set as well. You already have the costly part (the hardware)of your setup installed. You won't regret it. To use the system, lower your main halyard to a premarked spot on the halyard which corresponds to the forward reef point being near the gooseneck. Cleat the halyard. Haul on your forward reefing line. Cleat it. Haul on your aft reefing line. Cleat it. Haul on your halyard to snug up the luff. Cleat it, and continue sailing.
Bryan, you have a two line jiffy reefing system. All you need to do is add two lines. Here is how to do it. I used 3/16 braid, but you could go up to 1/4" if you felt the need. Tie a line off on the aft starboard padeye, run it up to and through the grommet at the reefing point on the leech of your sail, (if you have one) and back down to the cheek block and forward to the first cleat on the port side. Give yourself an extra 18 inches of line for purchase and cut the line at that point. Now for the forward reefing line: Tie the line to the padeye on the starboard side, run it up to and through the grommet at the reef point in the luff of the sail and down to the cleat on the port side. I have a single line reefing system. The only difference is that I don't have a cleat port aft, and I have an additional cheek block port forward and a cleat starboard forward. A single line does the whole trick, but there is a lot more line involved, and I think two lines are easier to manage. If your sail does not have reef points, get your sailmaker to put some in. I think it cost me under a $100 for a single set. If I were doing it again, I would put in a second set as well. You already have the costly part (the hardware)of your setup installed. You won't regret it. To use the system, lower your main halyard to a premarked spot on the halyard which corresponds to the forward reef point being near the gooseneck. Cleat the halyard. Haul on your forward reefing line. Cleat it. Haul on your aft reefing line. Cleat it. Haul on your halyard to snug up the luff. Cleat it, and continue sailing.
wiring questions
Gord, I am taking you up on your offer for specific questions regarding wiring. I have checked a number of the links noted in this thread, and being in the human services field, amperage, voltage drop, ohms formulae, etc are all greek to me. So here are my specific questions. I have a daysailor II, 17 feet in length. All power runs from an older car battery. 12v. I want to install two nav lights. I haven't got them yet but assume they will either be 10 or 25 watt. On this circuit, will also be the compass light, and the lighted switch from Radio Shack, and an inline fuse near the switch. The wire run from the battery to the switch is no more than four feet, from the switch to aft light... eight feet, from switch to bow light... four feet, compass is within a foot of the switch, about four feet from the battery. All will be wired in parallel. In summary, the battery, is just forward the mast on the cabin sole, bowlight on the forward cabin roof, aft light on the stern transom quarter, and single switch on the aft cabin bulkhead with compass above on the same bulkhead. I also plan to add a 1.8 watt solar panel to keep the battery topped up. The motor is not electric start, so what is mentioned above is the only draw and only circuit for this battery. My questions: What size of wire do I use for the light circuit? I have 18 guage stranded, will that be adequate or is that too small given the run? What size of fuse do I use? What size of wire do I run from the solar panel to the battery? Thanks for offering to do, what for some would seem like basic math, but beyond me.
Gord, I am taking you up on your offer for specific questions regarding wiring. I have checked a number of the links noted in this thread, and being in the human services field, amperage, voltage drop, ohms formulae, etc are all greek to me. So here are my specific questions. I have a daysailor II, 17 feet in length. All power runs from an older car battery. 12v. I want to install two nav lights. I haven't got them yet but assume they will either be 10 or 25 watt. On this circuit, will also be the compass light, and the lighted switch from Radio Shack, and an inline fuse near the switch. The wire run from the battery to the switch is no more than four feet, from the switch to aft light... eight feet, from switch to bow light... four feet, compass is within a foot of the switch, about four feet from the battery. All will be wired in parallel. In summary, the battery, is just forward the mast on the cabin sole, bowlight on the forward cabin roof, aft light on the stern transom quarter, and single switch on the aft cabin bulkhead with compass above on the same bulkhead. I also plan to add a 1.8 watt solar panel to keep the battery topped up. The motor is not electric start, so what is mentioned above is the only draw and only circuit for this battery. My questions: What size of wire do I use for the light circuit? I have 18 guage stranded, will that be adequate or is that too small given the run? What size of fuse do I use? What size of wire do I run from the solar panel to the battery? Thanks for offering to do, what for some would seem like basic math, but beyond me.
96 A/Ft = #14 AWG
Roger: #18 AWG is not permitted (except for short interconnections within equipment). Minimum wire size is #16 AWG - Use #14 AWG. Assuming approx. 2 Amp Circuit (25 Watt) @ 2 x 24 Feet long (Pos out + Neg back) - you have a 96 Amp/Ft load (2A x 2wires x 24' longest circuit)- which requires #14 AWG Copper wire to maintain less than 3% Voltage Drop. Up to 10% VD is permitted (for Lighting) - but I don't recommend it (not cost-effective for <100' wire. Use #14 AWG Tinned Copper Wire, except you might use the #18 AWG (in stock) from Switch to Compass Light. Fuse @ 3 Amp. Recharge time, /w 1.8 Watt Solar Panel, will be about 20 x discharge time (ie: Run Lights for 2.5 Hours - require about 50 Hours to recharge. HTH Gord
Roger: #18 AWG is not permitted (except for short interconnections within equipment). Minimum wire size is #16 AWG - Use #14 AWG. Assuming approx. 2 Amp Circuit (25 Watt) @ 2 x 24 Feet long (Pos out + Neg back) - you have a 96 Amp/Ft load (2A x 2wires x 24' longest circuit)- which requires #14 AWG Copper wire to maintain less than 3% Voltage Drop. Up to 10% VD is permitted (for Lighting) - but I don't recommend it (not cost-effective for <100' wire. Use #14 AWG Tinned Copper Wire, except you might use the #18 AWG (in stock) from Switch to Compass Light. Fuse @ 3 Amp. Recharge time, /w 1.8 Watt Solar Panel, will be about 20 x discharge time (ie: Run Lights for 2.5 Hours - require about 50 Hours to recharge. HTH Gord
Non-Geek Wiring Questions
I used the book by Don Casey "Sailboat Electrics Simplified" Simple diagrams and narrative. You can't go wrong. Try Amazon.com @ $15.00 You'll sleep better at night.
I used the book by Don Casey "Sailboat Electrics Simplified" Simple diagrams and narrative. You can't go wrong. Try Amazon.com @ $15.00 You'll sleep better at night.
Thanks Gord
Definitely good info...I certainly appreciate it. I do have a question about grounding. How do I go about doing this? I don't have an inboard to ground to, does this mean I have to drill a hole through the hull to attach a submerged ground plate? My boat is a 21 foot Venture and all I'm looking for is power for navigation lights, a radio and some electronic gauges.
Definitely good info...I certainly appreciate it. I do have a question about grounding. How do I go about doing this? I don't have an inboard to ground to, does this mean I have to drill a hole through the hull to attach a submerged ground plate? My boat is a 21 foot Venture and all I'm looking for is power for navigation lights, a radio and some electronic gauges.
DC Ground
Bryan: “... power for navigation lights, a radio and some electronic gauges ...” is all 12VDC, hence you should’nt have to modify your present DC Negative/Ground wiring (if it’s presently done properly). The above accessories could be wired from a new DC Breaker/Fuse Panel - Positive Red & Negative Yellow (Black). You’re Outboard Engine wiring harness should already have a DC Negative wire, connected back to the Battery Negative. Existing: There will be a Large Red wire running from the Battery Positive to the Outboard. There will be a Large Black, Yellow, or Black/Yellow (perhaps Black/Green) wire running from Battery Negative to Engine (ground). New: Install a Large Red wire, c/w In-Line Fuse, from the Battery Positive to the Positive Bus on the New DC Panel. Install a Large Yellow wire from the Battery Negative to the Negative Bust on the new DC Panel. The Positive Bus on the new DC Panel is connected to the Line (supply) Side of the Overcurrent Protection Devices (Fuses or Breakers). Connect each load o the Load Side of it’s respective Fuse & Switch or Breaker (Red), running a Negative Return from the Load to the Panel’s Neg. Bus. ie: Cct #1: Navigation Lights Breaker to Lights #14 Red Positive Lights back to Negative Bus (Panel) #14 Yellow Return. CAUTION: I've assumed that you're present installation is adequate, as far as it goes - and that you only have to add a few more load circuits. In the event that you are uncertain of the quality/suitability of the existing condition - I strongly urge you to consult a qualified marine electrician or electrical comptetant mechanic (engine rigger). HTH, Gord
Bryan: “... power for navigation lights, a radio and some electronic gauges ...” is all 12VDC, hence you should’nt have to modify your present DC Negative/Ground wiring (if it’s presently done properly). The above accessories could be wired from a new DC Breaker/Fuse Panel - Positive Red & Negative Yellow (Black). You’re Outboard Engine wiring harness should already have a DC Negative wire, connected back to the Battery Negative. Existing: There will be a Large Red wire running from the Battery Positive to the Outboard. There will be a Large Black, Yellow, or Black/Yellow (perhaps Black/Green) wire running from Battery Negative to Engine (ground). New: Install a Large Red wire, c/w In-Line Fuse, from the Battery Positive to the Positive Bus on the New DC Panel. Install a Large Yellow wire from the Battery Negative to the Negative Bust on the new DC Panel. The Positive Bus on the new DC Panel is connected to the Line (supply) Side of the Overcurrent Protection Devices (Fuses or Breakers). Connect each load o the Load Side of it’s respective Fuse & Switch or Breaker (Red), running a Negative Return from the Load to the Panel’s Neg. Bus. ie: Cct #1: Navigation Lights Breaker to Lights #14 Red Positive Lights back to Negative Bus (Panel) #14 Yellow Return. CAUTION: I've assumed that you're present installation is adequate, as far as it goes - and that you only have to add a few more load circuits. In the event that you are uncertain of the quality/suitability of the existing condition - I strongly urge you to consult a qualified marine electrician or electrical comptetant mechanic (engine rigger). HTH, Gord
You do not need a ground plate
"all I'm looking for is power for navigation lights, a radio and some electronic gauges" That comment indicates to me that you do not understand that you do not need to do any wiring which contacts the water. The main thing to remember is that you do not want to set up any conditions which will cause electrolytic corrosion of any metal parts of the boat which do or may contact the water. Keep the DC ground isolated (insulated) from these kinds of parts. If you just make the DC wiring completely separate from all other metal objects on the boat, you should be ok. If the boat is bonded, do not use that for a part of the electrical wiring ie: DC ground or return. For example, bonded or not, do not use the mast for a part of the DC wiring circuit. Use a separate wire for DC ground The only reasons I know of for putting in a ground plate is for lightning protection or radio (RF) grounding. Unless you have an HF SSB radio, you will not likely need a ground plate. I think that the lightning protection afforded by a ground plate is suspect and not worth the effort but some may disagree. On a 17 foot boat I do not thing you will need one at all.
"all I'm looking for is power for navigation lights, a radio and some electronic gauges" That comment indicates to me that you do not understand that you do not need to do any wiring which contacts the water. The main thing to remember is that you do not want to set up any conditions which will cause electrolytic corrosion of any metal parts of the boat which do or may contact the water. Keep the DC ground isolated (insulated) from these kinds of parts. If you just make the DC wiring completely separate from all other metal objects on the boat, you should be ok. If the boat is bonded, do not use that for a part of the electrical wiring ie: DC ground or return. For example, bonded or not, do not use the mast for a part of the DC wiring circuit. Use a separate wire for DC ground The only reasons I know of for putting in a ground plate is for lightning protection or radio (RF) grounding. Unless you have an HF SSB radio, you will not likely need a ground plate. I think that the lightning protection afforded by a ground plate is suspect and not worth the effort but some may disagree. On a 17 foot boat I do not thing you will need one at all.
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