Two newbie questions

Bill Roosa · Oct 28, 2012

there should be two "black lines" they are at the boom end and near the mast head. they are used when racing to keep folks from "exceeding the rules on sail area"
The have nothing to do with trimming the sail except to give a reference.
Can't speak to the 260 directly but I would hazard a guess that at 30 knots you are going to be fully hardened up and reefed down. The factory jib is probably not going to be of help in that amount of wind as you would have massive weather helm from the front of the boat having too much sail relative to the back. I know my 40' is into the second reef at 30 kts. If you have a "reefing jib" the you should be able to get a decent sail shape.... which would imply you have a furling jib. Pretty much a 100% or 0% proposition.

Mike B1026 · Oct 28, 2012

Actually, I have heard of people putting that black line on the aft end of the boom for other reasons than racing. I read that it helped to judge how much outhaul you have. A learning tool.

Joe · Oct 28, 2012

Bill is exactly right..... the black lines represent the "P" (luff) and "E" (foot) dimensions for the mainsail. To be class legal, the sail cannot extend beyond these lines. These lines are normally applied by the factory....... I use it to set my halyard, initially.... and I guess you could put reference marks on the boom starting at the stripe and going forward.... whatever helps.

Don Guillette · Oct 28, 2012

I never raced my boat even though I had every piece of hardware Garhauer made. I test drove a lot of their stuff. My wife wanted every creature comfort that she could pack into it and if that's what it took for her to sail with me, that was just fine with me. There were a couple of married guys on my dock and for over 8 years I never once saw their better half. When I eventually sold the boat when we moved to Tucson, AZ and I removed our stuff the waterline came up 2"!!!

Even with the extra baggage the boat was a contender. At beer can races, what I'd do was set up about 100 yards off the start line and when they started so did I and I'd race the fleet on the first leg. I couldn't keep up with the front runners but had no trouble with the middle of the pack racers.

Here's how I used the outhaul black line. My Catalina 30 worked best with about 25% draft depth. Over 25% was ineffective and was a lose of efficiency. Once I got rolling I adjusted the outhaul to the black line and that was it. I never went beyond it.

If your a cruiser, play with your outhaul until you find the position of maximum efficency and mark it. That will take care of your mainsail. Now all you have to do is mess with your jib and figure out your fairlead position and your in business.

If your not into racing, try my gig. Start off with the racers and out of their way and see how you do. You might surprise yourself as to how well you can compete.

sinnettc · Oct 28, 2012

I agree with the beer can comments. Verboten is a retired racer but I don't race her. The Beer Can race on our lake is open to all takers and is really just a fun group sail around the buoys.

What it does is let you practice close quarters sailing (mostly at the start) and measure your skills against others. For example, it annoys me no end to be passed by Pneuma, the Cal 22, but it happens almost every time, especially when he goes with a genoa and I choose the blade. On the other hand, I love overtaking the larger Catalina 25's, etc., It focuses you on sail trim and boat handling.

Denis Schmider · Oct 29, 2012

30 Knots

Sublime said:
1.) The black line on the aft end of the boom- is that the maximum point you set for the outhaul or is this the minimum point?

2.) My boat is rated to be able to handle 30kts (catagory C I believe). Does this mean 30 kts with a reefed main only or with the "factory jib" and a reefed main? My boat doesn't have adjustable jib cars so you get crappy sail shape with a reefed jib.

Sublime

The 260 will not do well in 30 knots! at 15 Knots I have the main reefed and the jib furled about 50% and she is a handful. beyond that you will need either main only or jib only and in both cases she does not handle very well

Don Guillette · Oct 29, 2012

Sublime: Is your boat a fractional or masthead rig? If it's a masthead rig, an interesting mod would be the Garhauer adjustable fairlead system. Regardless of your rig, when the cars are stationary they are right for some point of sail and wind condition wrong for all others.

Joe · Oct 29, 2012

You should be able to reef the headsail partially without moving the jib leads.

The neutral postion for the lead is determined by a line (not the luff perpindicular) drawn from the mid point on the luff, through the clew to the deck. This essentially bisects the angle between leech and foot at the clew..... you can trace this line on the clew with a felt marker for reference. So..... while the boat is in the slip.... unwrap the sail.... sight up the sheet and take notice of the jib lead angle, then start reefing in the sail. How much does the angle change????? With a high cut clew, probably not a lot at the beginning....the clew will move UP and FORWARD at the same rate, so the lead angle will change slowly. A low cut clew will move forward more than upward, this will cause the lead angle line to move downward.. affecting the sail as if moving the lead back... which is opening up the leech and depowering it.... that's good. (If the opposite occurs, where the angle line moves up, then the leech is being closed down and the sail is being powered up..... not desireable.)

It is a very strong possibility that as the sail is rolled up, a high cut clew will rise along the mid luff angle line.... thus allowing you to reef the sail with little or no adjustment to the lead block needed....

The important thing to remember here is not to make a general assumption about your setup without checking it out for yourself. You may find your assumptions are unfounded.......and that the sail can be reefed or at least de powered without moving the sheet blocks.

Barnacle Bill · Oct 29, 2012

The outhaul actually serves a purpose and by tightening you bring the draft of the sail down and loosening it brings the draft of the sail up. Luff tension moves the draft of the sail forward while loosening it, it moves the draft of the sail aft. In different wind conditions one usually adjusts them to suit, if seriously interested in making your boat perform at its best.

OldCat · Oct 30, 2012

It depends, in part, on what "A Lake" is and how big it is and how big the waves get. On my rather small lake waves are not an issue with 28-30kt winds. In these conditions, my C22 can be sailed on a single reefed main, but it is a handful and not really fun to do. Because I have a masthead rig and adjustable cars, my boat sails better on just a partially rolled up head sail in these conditions.

33-35 or so is the limit of what I can sail in and still make a small amount of ground upwind - this with a furled scrap of headsail. A storm jib would have better shape and might do better, but wind power goes up much faster than speed, so how much more speed could be sailed in if needed is questionable.

From what I have seen of the ocean in a well developed gale [on edit - or force 6 - small craft warnings] - I would not want to be out there in my small craft. Waves are a big part of the equation. Hence, the size of your lake matters.

Other Hunter 260 owners are giving you good info about your boat. Since you asking - ideally you gain experience in small steps from 15kts upwards until you find out for yourself. I found out about thunderstorm microbursts by knocking a J22 over about 60-70 deg - twice

. Once we broached on only the class jib

. Not that I have learned - I have had water pour into the cockpit of my C22 several times

...

At least a C22 is self righting - I have never gotten past ~50 degrees on mine. But, I have watched a C22 right itself from 90, there is another thread on this forum on that story. Talk in depth with fellow H260 owners.

[on edit: my estimates of wind speeds on my lake might be downgraded 10% or so at sea level due to my sailing a "mile high"]

OC

Don Guillette · Oct 30, 2012

There are two kinds of DRAFT. One is DRAFT POSITION and that is an imaginary vertical line that that moves horizontally along the sail. You want that line to be at about the 50% position on the mainsail or the jib. As the wind pipes up it tends to push the draft position line aft thus powering up the sail. You use your sail trim controls (to move the line back to around 50%, which is a comfortable sailing position.

The other is draft is DRAFT DEPTH or BELLY. The outhaul is the primary sail trim control for draft depth and the generally maximum amount of draft depth is about 25%.