two macerator pumps

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U

upi441@comcast.net

I bought an order boat with a jabsco electric toilet. The waste keeps backing up into toilet instead of flushing out. I am going to replace the joker valve to see if that corrects the problem. The owner before me put a new macerator pump connected to the head and then put another macerator pump between the toilet macerator and the holding tank? why ?

Also the hose coming out of toilet macerator is 1 1/2 inch and feeds into 2 inch hose and then back into 1 1/2 inch hose and goes into second macerator. Coming out of second macerator is another 1 1/2 hose which feeds into a 2 inch and then into tank.

Should there be so many changes in size of hose? Why is there two macerators? Would it be better to run a 1 1/2 inch hose from macerator #1 straight to the 2nd macerator??

Please help

Karen
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,913
- - LIttle Rock
Chernobyl wasn't that big a disaster!

I bought an order boat with a jabsco electric toilet. The waste keeps backing up into toilet instead of flushing out. I am going to replace the joker valve to see if that corrects the problem.
It won't. A blocked holding tank vent is the most likely reason your toilet can't flush....but your plumbing is such a nightmare that it's prob'ly only part of the problem at most.

The owner before me put a new macerator pump connected to the head and then put another macerator pump between the toilet macerator and the holding tank? why ?
That's a good question...I can't think of any good reason to do that. But I can think of a dozen reasons not to!

Also the hose coming out of toilet macerator is 1 1/2 inch and feeds into 2 inch hose and then back into 1 1/2 inch hose and goes into second macerator. Coming out of second macerator is another 1 1/2 hose which feeds into a 2 inch and then into tank.
That makes no sense whatever!

Should there be so many changes in size of hose?
No.

Why is there two macerators?
I dunno, but they both need to come out!

Would it be better to run a 1 1/2 inch hose from macerator #1 straight to the 2nd macerator??
No...but what WOULD make sense would be a 1.5: line from the toilet straight to the tank.

If I were you I'd pull EVERYTHNG out except MAYBE the tank....the toilet, ALL the hoses and BOTH those d'd macerators! They're causing big problems! Then you and I can spec out the right way to replumb with new hoses.

Meanwhile you might want to spend some time reading discussions in the HeadMistress forum and you might also check out the link in my signature.
 
U

upi441@comcast.net

well what now

So if I do not use a macerator at all what will pull raw water in and flush and then macerate and pump to holding tank?
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,913
- - LIttle Rock
You shouldn't need the macerators

Macerator pumps have only one purpose--to dump a holding tank at sea...they're not designed to be used as intake and discharge pumps in toilets...Electric toilets have built-in intake pumps and discharge pumps. If yours doesn't something is wrong....either the PO has jury rigged a manual toilet to try to turn it into an electric, or used a "Rube Goldberg" approach to repairing a failed electric. I need to know the make/model of your toiilet to know which. and how to correct all the problems You said it's a Jabsco...which model? How old? If you don't know I can tell you if you'll post a photo of it that shows everything BUT the bowl (all bowls look alike).
 
U

upi441

should have told you model first... sorry

It is an electric jabsco 37010-1090
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,913
- - LIttle Rock
Here's the manual for it...

http://www.ittflowcontrol.com/files/itemdoc1431.pdf

There are two models--one uses sea water and has an internal intake impeller. The other is designed to use onboard pressurized flush water from the fresh water system and has a solenoid valve in the intake line. ONLY the model designed to use pressurized water should ever be connected to the fresh water system. Toilets designed to use sea water should never be connected to any fresh water plumbing. You should be able to sort out the way your toilet SHOULD be installed from the exploded drawing in the manual. So spend a little time with it and then we can spec it out.
 
U

upi441

My ideas and more questions

I order your book last night off amazon, I should receive tomorrow.

I had study that installation PDF. i replaced the macerator pump when first trying to get the head to work. Just yesterday in the cockpit area of the boat removed an access panel which allowed me to see the second macerator and all the 'hookups'.

I am using seawater (lake) to flush with. So I have a hose running from seacock to input side of the macerator, with about a less than a foot of rise... There are no problem on that side, water runs into toilet great. So there is no need for the solenoid and loop, correct? Part of the job of the macerator pump is to pull water in for flushing, correct?

The waste line after leaving the toilet has to travel up to cockpit area of boat.. about a two foot rise. From the cockpit the waste line travels about 8-10 feet into the waste tank.

Here is my idea for re-doing the system
1. leave input from sea cock to toilet as is
2. Take out all plumbing lines from toilet to tank and remove the second macer.
3. replace joke valve
4. Use 1 1/2 inch hose all the way back to the 2 inch line near waste tank
5. when waste line come out of toilet have a loop and then the go back to tank
6. try to keep a slant in hose back to tank
7. replace vent line and perhaps change through hull, currently it is a

Questions
Since I do not have a dry and wet flush, what keeps waste/water from stay in line from toilet to top of loop?
Will the macerator pump the fluid that far back to tank.
How high should the loop be?

Thank you for everything
 
U

upi441@comcast.net

sorry hit accidently hit reply before ready

Sorry for errors wasn't ready to send and hit wrong button.

Of course I will leave the attached toilet macerator and then remove all lines.

The through hull for vent line is a round raised button type with two small holes.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,913
- - LIttle Rock
Nooo....there's a whole bunch wrong with your plan

1. No...pulling in flush water is NOT part of a macerator pump's job. And a solenoid valve is only needed in a vented loop or in a pressurized flush water system. You shouldn't need the first macerator pump to pull in flush water. I suspect the PO installed it because the intake impeller in the toilet had failed and he had no idea how to replace it.

2. You defintely do NOT need the second macerator pump...the toilet has a built in discharge impeller and macerator. A second one downstream of the first causes all kinds of problems because they don't run at the same speed. That's prob'ly at least a part of what's causing your back up.

Explaining how everything works and what you need to do is gonna require a lot more typing than I have time to do before I leave home tomorrow for 5 days...so let's talk instead. Stand by for any incoming email with my phone number.

And btw...Amazon is showing "out of stock" for my book...you can order from online store here by clicking on the link in my signature.
 

Eric M

.
Sep 30, 2008
159
Island Packet 35 Jacksonville
I had basically the same toliet and symptom that you initially describe above on a boat that we purchased. I put in a full rebuild kit and still had the same issue. With help from this site, and Peggy's book, I decided to go with the Raritan PHII manual to get the dry flush option. During the install I also replaced all the hoses from the head to the tank. End result, a year later, no more backflow and longer trips between pumpout with use of the dry flush option.
Good Luck
 
G

Guest

Head Issues

Hi Karen, what make and model boat do you have?

If you would please check out several articles that I just posted in this forum under the thread, "Hunter P42 Holding Tank Questions". You may find some helpful information there.

Terry Cox
 
Oct 2, 2007
131
- - Millville, NJ
The term "macerator" is one of the most misused terms in boating. The applicable definition of the word "macerate" (also spelled "mascerate" in the Queen's English) from Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary is as follows, "to cause to become soft or separated into constituent elements by or as if steeping in fluid; broadly: steep, soak ~ vi: to soften and wear away esp. as a result of being wetted or steeped." No it isn't Greek.

The key phrase is "to become soft." Macerators beat up (grind, shred, chop up) the sewage and paper, reducing it in size and texture, basically into a slurry, to make it easier to pump through a hose or pipe, and for another reason that will be mentioned below.

How does this apply on a boat? There are three distinctly different applications:

1) A macerator that is built into an electric marine toilet. This is, again, to grind up and reduce the size and texture of the sewage that has been deposited into the head, making it easier to pump it off to a holding tank, treatment system, or overboard. Note that manual toilets, electrified manual toilets, and vacuum toilets do not have macerators built into them. Only electric toilets that have rotating blades or cutters of some sort, have macerators built into them.

2) A macerator that is built into an onboard sewage treatment system. The purpose, again, is to grind up and reduce the size of the sewage that has been pumped into it by a marine toilet. The specific purpose is to reduce the particle size, so that the disinfectant being used by the treatment system can penetrate all the way into the center of each individual particle, to kill all the bacteria contained in the sewage. If maceration were not being done inside the treatment unit, there would be an excellent chance that when it emptied back out into the water, the sewage would not be fully treated, because the disinfectant wouldn't have penetrated all the way to the center of the particles, and it could still contain harmful bacteria, viruses, and the like.

3) Macerator pumps. Macerator pumps are the most common application where the term "macerator" is used. But the correct term is "macerator pump," not simply "macerator." The term is very commonly misused, and this is where much of the confusion comes from. A macerator pump is a macerator (cutter/shredder/grinder) combined with a positive displacement pump. The purpose of a macerator pump is to pump out a sewage holding tank when at sea, beyond any territorial limits. The macerator portion of the pump reduces the size and texture of the material being pumped out of the tank, so that it is less prone to clog in the hoses or pipes. Otherwise it is merely a positive displacement pump, nothing more. Macerator pumps have some sort of rotating blade or other shredder immediately in front of a rotating rubber impeller. This grinds up the sewage, then the rotating impeller pumps it out of the tank. Again, only pumps that have some sort of rotating cutter system have macerators built into them. Common brands of macerator pumps are ITT Jabsco, Sherwood, Johnson, and Raritan. The SeaLand "T" series pump, which is also used to pump out holding tanks does not have a rotating cutter, and thus, it is not a macerator pump. It is simply a positive displacement pump that can handle solids as well as liquids.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,913
- - LIttle Rock
We had a nice long phone chat...

Turned out that Karen was calling the toilet's lower base unit a "macerator" and, because the tank is a mile from the toilet, the PO had indeed installed a Jabsco macerator pump inline to get the flush the rest of the way to the tank.

Once we got the semantics straightened out and sorted out the plumbing, I think we were able to solve the worst of her problems.
 
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