Twin Helms in Cruising Boats: Innovation or Fad?

Dr. D

Dr. D

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Nov 3, 2018
275
Beneteau Oceanis 35.1 Herrington Harbour North
Although this topic may have been thrashed enough on this forum (please point me to the threads), a comment in the thread on the Annapolis boatshow made me bring this up. The comment was that the twin helm was not appealing, or words to that effect.

Our boat is 34' and has twin helms. We find this arrangement beneficial in several ways: The helmsman can choose the side with the best view for the situation at hand. With the aft part of the cockpit open almost to either side of the hull, access to the aft cleats is easy as is reaching out with a boat hook to grab lines. When I am sailing with my wife, changing over control is simple with the no dancing to get around the wheel. The cockpit is much more open and moving about is easier (important especially to my wife who has some mobility issues). And, in the evening in the slip, we can place two lawn chairs at the stern to relax.

OTOH, the mechanics are more involved and increase the cost. I have not heard of any failures of the wheels-to-rudders (twin rudders) system.

We are pleased with the layout. Is the move of many boat builders to twin helms here to stay, or a fashion?
 
Davidasailor26

Davidasailor26

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May 17, 2004
5,079
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
Seems to me like the move was necessitated by the increasing trend toward wider aft sections of hulls. Our Beneteau 37 is a single helm, but anything any wider like the 40 of the same era, or the later 35 and 38 switched to dual. I think if the hull is so wide that you couldn’t reach a single wheel while sitting at the gunwale then a dual is appropriate. Being forced to sit on the centerline to reach the wheel isn’t good for visibility when sailing in general.

Then again, I saw the new Beneteau Oceanis 30 at Annapolis and even it had dual helms. That just seemed silly to me. On a boat that size it seems like a single helm would be just fine. On a racing boat that size I’d expect to see a tiller. I tried turning the helm with the wheel brake off and the resistance from all the friction and inertia in the system was terrible. Way too numb for my taste. I guess the designer figured you get a nice walking path to the stern for those who dock aft-in, but the tradeoff wasn’t appealing to me.
 
capta

capta

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Jun 4, 2009
4,773
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
I prefer a deeper, more enclosed, protected cockpit than the twin helm boats offer, if I'm going offshore or even inter-island. And, as most dual rudder systems seem to be really just one enlarged system, there is no safety in being able to use one should the other fail.
 
D

dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
11,430
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Since the two rudders are not independent, there are twice as many ways for the steering to fail. The big reason for the twin helms is the advent of big butt boats. The beam is carried well aft to allow for bigger aft staterooms and a bigger interior.

If you are racing a Volvo 60, Open 60 or one of the big racing sleds, then large aft quarters allows for surfing and carrying a big spinnaker downwind. For the mere mortals who sail, the big butt is for room in the aft stateroom.
 
Brian D

Brian D

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Feb 17, 2006
5,274
Lancer 27PS MCB Camp Pendleton KF6BL
Fad... because the Volvo race boats have them and look cool, other boats have to have them to look like they are a Volvo race boat. I read they are actually training sailboats. You know, like driver training cars? LOL
 
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D

dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
11,430
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Brian D said:
Fad... because the Volvo race boats have them and look cool, other boats have to have them to look like they are a Volvo race boat. I read they are actually training sailboats. You know, like driver training cars? LOL
Click to expand
Yep, and after Australia won the America's Cup, wing keels were the rage. I've got one of them. For cruising boats, the wing is not a great idea, harder to get it unstuck from the mud.
 
Meriachee

Meriachee

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Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
dlochner said:
For cruising boats, the wing is not a great idea, harder to get it unstuck from the mud.
Click to expand
The wing makes all the difference between floating it on the trailer or needing the dreaded crane. The trick is not to get it stuck in the mud in the first place.. :)
 
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VanIslandGuy

VanIslandGuy

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Jan 12, 2016
268
Hunter 410 Ladysmith, BC
I don't mind the twin helms at all, even though we don't have one on our boat. What I didn't like was the throttle placement, and the seating area behind the twin helms on most of the 40+ foot boats we looked at. Most were mounted very low and instead of being on the steering pedestal were down below knee level when standing up. I never dock the boat while seated, why would I want the throttle to be difficult to use while standing? If they can have the throttle mounted up high enough to use while standing from either in front or behind the wheel, and have a seated helm position with some coamings around the back and outer side, I would love a dual helm.
 
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Davidasailor26

Davidasailor26

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May 17, 2004
5,079
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
VanIslandGuy said:
I don't mind the twin helms at all, even though we don't have one on our boat. What I didn't like was the throttle placement, and the seating area behind the twin helms on most of the 40+ foot boats we looked at. Most were mounted very low and instead of being on the steering pedestal were down below knee level when standing up. I never dock the boat while seated, why would I want the throttle to be difficult to use while standing? If they can have the throttle mounted up high enough to use while standing from either in front or behind the wheel, and have a seated helm position with some coamings around the back and outer side, I would love a dual helm.
Click to expand
To that I would just add that the seating position should also have decent visibility. Dual helms should lend themselves to that, putting you where the cabin top is lower and without the mast in the direct line of sight. Unfortunately some of the seats behind the dual helms were too low to really get your sight lines above the cabin. A few times I was sitting behind the wheel thinking if I was just 4” higher it would be a lot nicer. There was also at least one boat with a grill built into the helm seat. That’s a pretty nice out of the way place for it, but it means after you cook a nice dinner and want to sail home you can’t sit on that side at all until the grill cools.
 
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Brian D

Brian D

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Feb 17, 2006
5,274
Lancer 27PS MCB Camp Pendleton KF6BL
Davidasailor26 said:
... A few times I was sitting behind the wheel thinking if I was just 4” higher it would be a lot nicer. ...
Click to expand
I have some old phone books I can lend you. Also, you can try a barber shop for a booster seat. What a sight that would be, a $100,000 boat with a booster seat. LOL
 
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D

dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
11,430
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Davidasailor26 said:
A few times I was sitting behind the wheel thinking if I was just 4” higher it would be a lot nicer.
Click to expand
All you need is money. Booster seats are available:

C Cushions - Custom cockpit cushions for boats

Custom cockpit cushions for boats. With over 1000 patterns of cockpit layouts on file, chances are we have yours. C Cushions will produce cushions to the configuration that will fit your needs.
www.ccushions.com
 
Davidasailor26

Davidasailor26

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May 17, 2004
5,079
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
Brian D said:
I have some old phone books I can lend you. Also, you can try a barber shop for a booster seat. What a sight that would be, a $100,000 boat with a booster seat. LOL
Click to expand
If the asking price was only $100,000 I might think it’s ok to expect the buyer to bring their own phone book, but some of the boats with were $400,000. :biggrin: And I’m 5’11”, so I don’t know what size booster the shorter ones in the audience would need.
 
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jeff356

jeff356

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Apr 21, 2014
184
Hunter 356 Middle River, MD
Just looked at a later model Hunter 50 with the dual helms and loved that the cockpit was more open in front of the wheels, and allows guest and crew to move around more freely and have a bigger space.

Would worry if the weather was up and you are on the outside, less protected.

Jeff
 
B

BobbyFunn

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Apr 16, 2017
841
Federation NCC-1701 Riverside
Fad.
Time to dispense with such archaic monstrosities and move forward into the future.

Wrist mounted rudder controllers. Step right up and order the multiplexed controllers for teams.

Alexarhhh...20 degrees to port.

IMG_20191016_131527.jpg

 
Davidasailor26

Davidasailor26

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May 17, 2004
5,079
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
BobbyFunn said:
Fad.
Time to dispense with such archaic monstrosities and move forward into the future.

Wrist mounted rudder controllers. Step right up and order the multiplexed controllers for teams.

Alexarhhh...20 degrees to port.

View attachment 170900
Click to expand
Ssshhhh... don’t give them any ideas.

There was also a Moody 54 at the show with dual wheels, but behind a very high cabin so you couldn’t see the surface of the water for several hundred feet in front of you. Then inside the cabin they had a forward facing chart table with a throttle. Thing is, you don’t get a wheel at the inner station, just the throttle and push buttons for autopilot control. It was a very nice boat otherwise, but evidently if you can afford to buy it you can also afford to pay someone to drive it for you. :banghead:
 
SoSound

SoSound

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Nov 21, 2007
633
Beneteau Oceanis 34 Kingston, WA
:laugh: If Alexarhhh can steer us 20 degrees to port, why do we still need the wrist controller?
 
Meriachee

Meriachee

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Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
“Hey Siri. 10 degrees to port please”. Wait for it......
 
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