Tuning a Ketch RIg

[victorhoisington]

So Saturday was my 2nd day out this year, and the first with any real wind (estimated at 10-12 knots). We had a nice sail under Jin and Jigger (Jib and Mizzen sail) and the boat responded well reaching a top speed of 7.4 knots (according to the Chartplotter) on a nice beam reach. But I have a question.

Let me set the stage:
S/V Desiderata: 1977 Islander 41 "Freeport" Ketch - Length overall 41', LWL = 32'6", beam 13'3"
Sails all < 1 year old, Jib, Main and Mizzen. No staysail or staysail stay. Main and Mizzen are full (4) batten, loose footed sails.

Now the question, When sailing on a beam reach I noticed about a 1/4 turn on the wheel of Lee Helm Any ideas on how to reduce this Lee Helm?

I'm sure the rig is not tuned well, the previous owner only sailed with the jib and main, I'm trying to learn how to sail with the full rig, She does have a back stay for the main mast but the Mizzen has no back stay, Current testing of the rig (hand checks only) indicate that the Main backstay is tight, forward shrouds on main mast could be tightened, rear shrouds on mizzen could be tightened, all others appear to be tight.

Could the cause of the lee helm also be the lack of a mainsail flying? Could the jib be too tight/loose? I have a lot to learn about this boat and about sailing a ketch rig in general however, the discussions on this forum are also great sources of things to try and things to figure out. Any and all ideas, suggestions or recommendations are welcome.

Thanks,
Victor
S/V Desiderata
Redwood City, CA

 

[justsomeguy]

Any ideas on how to reduce this Lee Helm?

Sheet the mizzen tighter, let out the jib or a combination of the two?

 

[dlochner]

As a rule of thumb, lee helm is caused by too much power forward and not enough aft. The Jib wants to push the bow of the boat downwind and the main/mizzen wants to drive the sail to weather.

So, as JSG says, depower the jib by easing the sheet and power up the mizzen by sheeting it in. If you have a big genoa, it may simply be too big when paired with only the mizzen. Try reefing the jib a little.

Do you have leach tell tales on the Mizzen and Main? Luff tell tales on the Jib? Get those flying correctly and a lot of the helm should go away. If not, then there may be a tuning issue, such as not enough rake or prebend or the mast may be tipped forward.

 

[Parsons]

Agree with the previous experts ... this is not a standing rig problem, but a sail balance one. Standing rig tuning will determine finer sail trim (maximum speed lost, or mast falling off slightly causing differences of speed on opposite tacks, for example). If the rig looks stable enough a the dock, the dynamic pressures are not going to cause lee helm issues like you describe. Too much power forward, and not enough aft. I'll bet if you bought a 40 ft ketch, you know how to balance that.

 

[Gunni]

Roll up some Jib or kick the crew off their seat cushions and have them get the main up.

 

[victorhoisington]

Thanks, This is great. I'm still learning the Ketch rig and have to remember that the Mizzen is as much for steering as it is for power. I had the tell tails flying on both sails but if I had brought the mizzen in some it probably would have helped with the lee helm.

Next time I'm out I'll play with that more and see how she behaves.

 

[NotCook]

Sheet the mizzen tighter, let out the jib or a combination of the two?

This was my immediate reaction also.

 

[NotCook]

have to remember that the Mizzen is as much for steering as it is for power.

In fact, you should be able to steer without the helm at all, especially on a beam reach, and let the helm freewheel. It will sail all day long on the same relative wind - it has no choice.

 

[capta]

If you care, it's jib n jigger. Unless you are sailing with a G n T in your hand. lol
If your mizzen doesn't have any backstays, then it should have running backstays for any sailing you will do with the wind abaft the beam. Also, if you can get yourself a mizzen staysail for use in lighter airs, you will come to love that sail.
When we put up the mizzen we can count on a speed increase of at least one knot. Sometimes that's easier than shaking out a reef on the main, especially in unsettled weather.

 

[victorhoisington]

This is why I love this forum. I've read all of this before but in the heat of the moment, while fiddling with the auto-pilot and trying to ensure my guests are comfortable, the obvious solution, the one that would have impressed my guests and the solution I've mentioned to others, is the way to go. Senility must be getting the best of me!!

She is still a "new" boat to us and we are constantly learning,

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

Might also need to adjust the rake of the main mast. Took me a while to get my 35 foot tri balanced well- minor stuff though

 

[victorhoisington]

If you care, it's jib n jigger

Arghhhh.. I do care, my apologies for the mistake on the proper term. And thanks to everyone, especially those Ketch owners with years of experience.

 

[Roadking Larry]

Don't forget us ketch owners with months of experience