Try to change her, or let her go? Need advice here..

Jackdaw · Nov 11, 2013

Its a great question and a great post.

The biggest question is how you use the boat and what factors in your enjoyment. As day-sailors, the smaller cockpit and big cabin are liabilities, and no amount of bolt-ons are going to change that. One thing that is for sure, you will get pennies on the dollar for any mods you make; looks like you see that now.

I would take a hard look that what will make you two happy, and if it can be with this boat.

You are also right; if you sell it will have to be local... for an older fixed keel 27 footer the shipping cost would be a prohibitively high percentage of the transaction that makes a remote sale unrealistic.

Maybe propose a 'swap'... create ads to that effect. Maybe someone near with a big daysailer has aspirations of doing some real pocket cruising.

Scott T-Bird · Nov 11, 2013

It sounds like re-sale prices will never be in your favor, so you basically have 2 choices: enjoy what you have and continue to make the upgrades you desire, or cut bait and sell as quickly as possible to eliminate the urge to spend any more money on her while you shop for a new mistress.

I'm in exactly that same position; however, I love her to death so I continue to spend money on her. I'll continue to do that ungrudgingly because we have no immediate plans to buy a newer, larger boat and I enjoy the upgrades and projects.

It sounds like your only real complaint is lack of space in the cockpit, which is a common problem in boats like ours. Add the stern seats if you think that will help, but I don't honestly think it's an upgrade worth doing in a 27' boat. I think that anybody seated in those corners will still be in the way, and they won't enjoy the seats anyway. I think those seats were made for marketing photos and the only time you'd see anybody in a seat like that is in an advertisement.

I don't really like to sail with a crowd, so for two of us, a compact cockpit and comfortable cabin is a plus. We eventually want to sail our boat where the small volume in our cockpit will be a safety feature.

cat30 · Nov 11, 2013

It sounds like your only real complaint is lack of space in the cockpit, which is a common problem in boats like ours. Add the stern seats if you think that will help, but I don't honestly think it's an upgrade worth doing in a 27' boat. I think that anybody seated in those corners will still be in the way, and they won't enjoy the seats anyway. I think those seats were made for marketing photos and the only time you'd see anybody in a seat like that is in an advertisement.

Actually- people fight over who will be sitting on the stern rail seats! best seat in the house and generally out of the way!

Scott T-Bird · Nov 11, 2013

I guess it depends ...

cat30 said:
Actually- people fight over who will be sitting on the stern rail seats! best seat in the house and generally out of the way!

Newer boats with a wider stern probably can fit the seats with more comfort. Besides, a 30' Catalina already has much more room in the cockpit by design, so that the stern seats are actually far roomier than they could ever be in our tiny cockpits.

Our boat has a cockpit that is similar to the Cherubini 27, except his cockpit appears even smaller than mine ... I have a bridge deck where his appears to be the cabin bulkhead.

For our boat, with split-backstay, the stern seats could never work. With just a single backstay fitting centered, I suppose it could work. But I kind of doubt it.

Barnacle Bill · Nov 11, 2013

You also are thinking of a multihull, which is a completely different animal and if you are looking for some fun factor, you will get a lot more of it in an F27 than an H27. The price point is much different. Presumably you enjoyed the H27 and that helped justified the money you put into her. We all have that same issue. Grow with the sport if you can afford it. Your rewards will be many.

Chief RA · Nov 11, 2013

Catbird Seats are great on a cat250 with a tiller! Chief

HukilauMike · Nov 11, 2013

If you think you are going to find a daysailer/weekender with a big cockpit in that size (approx. 27ft) within your budget, I think you will be disappointed. Most cockpits on boats that size are about the same length. It seems that up until the Alerions came out, no one was willing to design a boat that size and sacrifice cabin space for cockpit room. The trend was always trying to fit more creature comforts into the interior: that's one of the main reasons that high freeboards, wide sterns and boxy hulls have become the norm. But the Alerion changed that and proved that people (at least some well-to-do sailors) were willing to admit that they weren't going to go cruising for more than the occasional overnight, and that a comfortable cockpit was what was most important. Now, there's an entire market of "traditional daysailers", styled to look old above the water line and modern below. They sail great, look great and are perfect for the way that most people use their boats: spending the day aboard, casual racing, and the very occasional overnight.

Exactly what you want, right? The only problem is that these boats (Alerion, the Morris M series, Schock's Harbor series, etc.) is that you can't afford them. They are very expensive new, and they are relatively new models, so even the used ones are way out of your budget.

A couple of options come to mind: the Colgate 26 has the biggest and best cockpit of any small boat in this country. Its friggin' huge. Eight adults in there easily, and no crowding. Super wide gunnels that you can comfortably sit on too. Virtually no cabin to speak of. Easy to sail, and easy to set up for racing. A very stable, forgiving boat that also is pretty fast.

And if you want to go cheap and a bit smaller, look for an Oday Tempest. The cockpit can easily fit six adults, eight if they're friendly. Again, the cabin is small, but the boat is a traditional looking beauty. The Tempest fits right into today's "traditional daysailer" mode: a salty looking sheer and hull, and a modern underbody. The boats are a little harder to find; I think they stopped making them in the sixties, and anything you find will need work. But if you do find one, its likely that it will cost you next to nothing, and then you can pay someone to restore it for you, all within your budget. Anyway, good luck.

rardiH36 · Nov 11, 2013

Puddle:

I can feel your pain (well sort of anyway). My 36' 1980 Cherubini Hunter also has a cockpit very small for boat of its size. Rather than invest in a new boat, my solution has been to divest myself of too many sailing friends --on the boat at the same time anyway!

Anonymous 121765 · Nov 12, 2013

Puddle,

Years back, a friend bought a nice C27. We were co-owners in a C22 & he met a great girl & decided to "move up". I still had the C22 & thought his boat was soo much bigger.
I decided to move up & said I was also looking for a C27.

To my surprise, my friend a month after buying his boat said to me. "NO".
He said I needed to go bigger. If I bought a 30 footer, It would be three foot wider, it would feel like 10 feet longer, the cabin would be bigger etc. etc. etc.

He was right, so if you feel the 27 might be a bit small............it's time to move up.

CR

rufus1138 · Nov 12, 2013

might consider an s2 7.9 or a mirage 236, something of that idea, smaller cabins bigger cockpits, more racy, especially the mirage.

Steve Walsh · Nov 12, 2013

Our Newport 28 seems to have a big (long) cockpit for its size, about 6' long. Perfect for reading or a snooze hanging out at anchor. However, the wheel steering pedestal pretty much limits the cockpit to four people + helm, unless you want crew stuffed in the aft cockpit corners next to the helm, which is too many, IMHO. That much weight really makes it squat under power. I do like that the sheet winches are next to the helm and halyards are lead to the cockpit making single handing easy. Many of the 80'sw & 90's Hunters had small cockpits, but a ton of room below.The Catalina 30 is a great value, has a nice-sized cockpit, plenty of room below and fun to sail, probably why it is so popular.

slackr · Nov 12, 2013

Puddle:
I also have a '83 hunter 27, and have thought of trading up. My wife and I have gone, in past years, to several large boat shows looking at possibilities. Each time we came away loving our "old" boat even more.
We use our boat every weekend, often leaving the marina and not returning for days. Anchoring out every night and preparing great meals afloat, has been part of the charm of this little cruiser. We have outfitted the boat for maximum enjoyment on the water. Auto helm, traveler, roller furling, self-tailing winches, and yes, stern perch seats. The seats are the best place to be when anchored and rafted-up with other boats. This little boat is perfect for our lake sailing. And now that our kids have grown and don't come to the boat as often, the boat seems about ten feet larger. We don't expect to recoup our expenditures if we would sale her. We just enjoy!
Our boat Slack'r is on the cover of Good Old Boat this month. My wife and I take great pleasure in maintaining and upgrading the boat in the off season. We have a trailer for her and bring her back to my studio and work on projects all winter long. A larger boat would not fit inside where I could play/work while the snow flies.

sailingseadragon · Nov 12, 2013

Then there is this approach if you have a little time on your hands.

http://www.lackeysailing.com/daysailor/

Pretty cool.

Garner

Sandy Stone · Nov 12, 2013

If you really are convinced you can live with a minimal cabin in order to get a bigger cockpit, look around for a Pearson 26 One-Design or Weekender. I used to own one, and they are solid little boats that sail well. (They do have outboard motors, which not everybody likes). I'm sure you can find details on the web. And you should be able to pick one up for under $5K.

rufus1138 · Nov 12, 2013

Btw op there is a lit of benifit to be had from changing from the standard mainsheet to a dual...I can send pics later but you can mod the system by just changing blocks and get a lot more adjustable system that is at least as good as a traveler and track by using fiddle blocks on the aft most bail (2 ea) and fiddles with Becket and cam cleats on the cabin top at the existing hard points..attach with snap shackles and when off the wind use one or the other moved to the toe rail as a vang/blowout preventer

Scott T-Bird · Nov 13, 2013

puddlejockey, it sounds to me like you are committed to your current love ...

Try to change her, or let her go? Need advice here..

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